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Question for Touring bassists. Need for cabs?

#21
I prefer the tone from my cab. I'm recording an EP now with an SM57 in front of it and it's perfect. If a live sound engineer is willing to mic it I'm really happy. Most can't be bothered and don't give a f*** what I like. They want whatever is easiest for them to get through the night and that's usually the DI. I've been told from one engineer we've played with a couple times now that he doesn't trust me not to randomly cranky my volume and ruin his sound in the middle of the set. That being said, bands like mine are a dime a dozen, usually full of egos and usually not backed by any significant skill. So while I don't agree with it, I do understand the lack of enthusiasm from the engineers. In an ideal world my cab would always be mic'd as I specifically bought cabinets for the tone that comes from my bass/amp running through it.
 
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#22
I have gone without an amp one time in 25 years of playing gigs because of technical issues. I went direct out of a VT bass pedal into the board at a large outdoor festival with a high end PA and monitors. I hated it!!!

I need my amp. There is no substitute for it and it took the wind out of my sails not being able to hear and feel my tone behind me. Did the crowd notice? Probably not, but I sure as hell did.
 
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#23
Of course you're making sense. Going without an amp is counter-intuitive, particularly if you've never done so and have been playing professionally for many years. I'd been playing over 30 years before my first IEM experience; it took me a couple of gigs to get used to them.

If you are one of those that simply cannot get what you believe is a decent sound out of any gear other than your own you should bring your own rig. It will increase your travel costs considerably and your gear will get beat up if you do not personally load and unload it, particularly if you have to put it on an airplane, but that is the price of not being able to get a serviceable sound out of anything but your own gear.

I have been ampless for years and prefer it. I have found it far easier to hear and be heard without having an amp behind me. I don't have to pay to get a rig to wherever I'm playing and my personal setup takes less than five minutes at each gig, which frees up a lot of time at sound check to allow everyone in the band to get what they need.

I like using IEMs because I can have the precise mix I want in my ears with CD quality sound. As for dates where the house prefers running wedges (think of festivals where there is more than one band on stage and limited time to connect IEM transmitters) I've never had a problem getting an excellent bass sound and band mix; it is exceptionally rare when the monitors for such dates are anything but excellent quality. (Those wedges may be beat up, but don't let their appearance fool you!) Although I can dial up a good sound with virtually any decent house-provided backline rig, I usually prefer to go direct and bypass the amp. For years I traded off between going through my Alembic F-1x preamp or a ToneHammer DI. The deciding factor was whether or not I had to go by air; if I went by air I took the ToneHammer because it fits in my flight case. The last couple of years I've been using a Kemper into the board and couldn't be happier; the Kemper has all of the choice amps and cabs in one three-space box that weighs less than five pounds.

Ultimately, it will be up to you to decide. Going ampless you may occasionally have to endure a less than ideal mix on stage, but that can be minimized or entirely mitigated by honing your skills in conveying what you are looking for in your sound to the sound support guys. Once in a great while you may have to endure "training day" with the sound support people, but contrary to what you may read on these pages, I've had absolutely fantastic results with sound engineers delivering good quality sound; remember, they will tend to be at least as caring and professional about their craft as you are about yours.
 
#24
Been playing shows with my band now for almost 7 years now, and I've played them all with a GK MB115 combo. I actually have two of them, and I've used them both for larger gigs, but as a rule one for to majority of gigs we play is good enough. We always have PA support anyways, so it's just used as a monitor. Besides, I'm just too old to be schlepping a cab anyways! Easy in, easy play, easy out - that's what I'm all about!
 
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#25
Doing a live show is a performance. Never used IEM's but I think there is something.....well "live" about having a good rig nearby punching live sound into ur soul..for me it just feels right, I also wear very good ear plugs which take out all the nasties and leave me with a solid stage tone which is very satisfying.
I can only imagine iem's make the whole experience feel like being in a studio/tin can..detached from my surroundings.
Be interested to hear from those who use them if thats the case or not.
 
#27
I love being able to have feedback from my amp and cab (if needed). I don't know how to do that with IEM's?
The one thing I truly hate, is hearing a clanky DI from a wedge when my (own) amp and cabinets sound so much better. That being said: if our FOH mixer asks to pull back on the amp, I'll never hesitate. I trust him on having a good sound for the audience, and that's the most important.
 
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#28
I love playing straight through the PA with IEMs. I feel like I sound so much more articulate, and I don't have to worry about blowing speaker, hauling cabs or heads. I grab my pedalboard and basses and go. My band also has our own PA, so we've developed a great working mix for us. I can understand cabs if it's something you absolutely feel is necessary, but when touring I think the money would be better spent on a variety of preamps, so you can run to the board no problem or bypass a crappy backline head and just use the provided speakers.
 
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#29
micguy said:
Leo Kottke never got paid that well. If you doubt me, ask him.
Click to expand...
Who mentioned Leo? I simply used a Leo quote to illustrate the disconnect between someone who says they want to make a living playing bass and being too hard headed to appreciate the fact they are doing what they claim to want to do, but are not grateful enough to appreciate the fact they are in fact earning a lving as a bass player.
In short, if it’s a job you do what your employer tells you to and at least pretend to like it, or wear out more shoe leather looking for another job where you will again be forced to bend to the will of the check writer if you want get paid.
Or you can find a bunch of like minded individuals and put together your own vision of entertainment and sell it to the masses and hope you don’t starve and get evicted while your vision catches on, or not.
If it’s a job, treat it like a job.
 
#30
bass71 said:
Be interested to hear from those who use them if thats the case or not.
Click to expand...
There is something very pleasing about standing in front of a roaring rig during a gig, no doubt. As for IEMs sounding bad? Nah. If you learn to use the gear correctly I think you'll find far more definition in your sound through IEMs; the articulation and immediacy of IEMs may actually reveal minor flaws in technique that help you to clean up your sound a bit, thereby providing a cleaner sound to the FOH. The downside is a lack of contact with your audience and/or band members. IEMs are effective at blocking out all the sounds on stage (particularly if you have your IEMs fitted by an audiologist), including conversations. "Feel" is a bit more nuanced, but if the subs are under the stage you'll feel what you're playing. An unexpected side effect is far less fatigue, not only at your ears, but in your body. I didn't know it until I started using IEMs, but very high sound pressure on stage will wear on your body more than you may realize during a long night.
 
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#31
What everyone making live noise has to realise is that you will suffer terrible ear probs down the line whether using eim or not if you dont limit the amount of noise hitting the ear drum directly.. re Clapton/Debbie Harry etc who now hav tinnitus and who are deaf etc etc.
After 40 yrs on and off my ears are in bad shape, thats why I wear plugs.
 
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#32
I suppose it depends on the situation. If you are touring with your own soundman and the same decent PA every night, it's probably workable to not haul around a heavy bass rig. However, if you are going to be relying on house equipment and different techs at each venue, then you've clearly never been on the road for any length of time. Think about the variety of talented techs and quality equipment available in most local scenes, then add the frustration of being 100s or 1000s of miles from home with no hope of running back to get your own rig. You might get lucky ... but probably not.

I've had one experience where I didn't take my own rig. It was a one-off show in the SF Bay area about four years ago. PA, lights, back line, and even drums were provided per the contract. All we had to do was bring our instruments and play. I will say this; when you sign a contract that provides equipment, be sure it doesn't include the phrase "or similar" anywhere in it ... because that's exactly what you'll get. There were no Marshalls or Ampeg on that stage. There was only "or similar." And, it wasn't. The only saving grace was the local soundman who, in spite of the back line inadequacies, made us sound reasonable good that night. That was the only time I've not taken my own gear, and I'll never do that again.
 
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#33
I know several high profile bands that do not use cabs. In fact, even some of guitarists in these bands don't use amps. They use a pedal board and run direct into the PA and use monitors. Personally, I prefer an amp and cab.
 
#35
I've done it both ways. Doesn't much matter to me as long as I can hear myself.

First video there is a rig behind me but it's one of the other bands and I just went straight into the board with a P-15 and used a monitor with a horn and 15.

Second video is an amp miked. But you still get a lot of amp in the audience like what @JimmyM was speaking of.


 
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#36
It's been said here, but I like how by bass sounds going through a tube head and coming out of speakers. Otherwise you just sound like your pickups. No EQ, no amp break-up, nothing. I use effects that often don't sound great on their own. The mix of the effects with my amp settings is sound I want. I can't imagine playing without an cabinet and still getting reasonably close to my desired sound. On our Stage Plot/Input list we specify that the bass cabinet has to be mic'd. If they want to run a DI box in addition for some blending, fine, but the amp sound out of the speakers is what really defines our tone.
 
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