Question for Touring bassists. Need for cabs?

[Manticore]

I'm not being combative when I ask, how do you play bass with ear monitors only? I can't imagine ear buds loud enough to transmit audible bass notes without highly damaging levels and permanent ear damage? I couldn't play bass in a band environment with full headphones, much less ear buds? I could see having ear monitors, *and* cabs.

This isn't being combative at all! The driver in an IEM doesn't need to excite much air to produce low frequencies precisely, so reproducing bass at a reasonable volume is no problem. Like anything new, it takes a bit to get used to them. Don't get me wrong. I love standing in front of a screaming rig from time to time; I just prefer actually hearing what is happening better. Your mileage may vary...

 

[devnulljp]

I really prefer to have my own amp setup as well as DI'ing to the FoH, but I just did my first series of 4 gigs without an amp, and it was fine -- just brought a nice DI and a bass. No fuss no muss, one trip get-in. Left the 8x10 at home.

 

[Kevan Campbell]

As some have said, it really depends on your gig and your individual circumstances. Usually I only use amps on in-town gigs for artists who don’t utilize IEMs for whatever reason, but my main road gig is strictly an “IEM and nice DI” situation as we only play venues which provide and run their own FOH (we run tails from our mixer board to them) and not having a bass amp is one less thing to both break down on the road or to add another variable for the bass signal to the FOH.

That said, I do sometimes miss my amps when on the road; there’s something about feeling my Bergantino rig thundering behind me onstage that I love and that rumble that goes all the way to my core is addictive. But for this present gig I’m willing to forgo that luxury in order to have a more portable setup of basses into my pedalboard and out to both a Noble preamp and REDDI (long story) AND to have less stuff to transport both in the trailer and into hotel rooms in questionable areas at night.

 

[rigorous bass]

Depends on the gig. Here where I live, it's pretty even. Most of my showroom gigs require in ear. In some cases they offer both in ear and amp on stage. Then there is the original scene which is pretty much all out stage volume in most cases because the clubs can get pretty small. I get a kick out of trying it all!

 

[Korladis]

I have never been on tour but I do have high end equip. and the question I ask may not be that stupid. Now if our amp is running through the board and we have ear monitors or floor monitors so we can hear ourselves(running through the board)Then what do we need our beautiful, great sounding, high dollar cabs for? Am I making any sense?
Thanks for any and all replies

It's risky to count on venues' PAs being adequate, IMO.

 

[JimmyM]

Yeah, sure, like I'm going to stand on a 2 ft square and never move off it.

 

[DD Gunz]

Aside from my personal preference for having my rig on stage, I think it looks a bit strange from the other side. I saw a band recently play in Reno at a decent size indoor venue who had nothing on stage but themselves. Maybe it’s the musician in me, but I found it a bit sterile. It also may be that I am getting old, but I expect to see amps where there are electric instruments. It kind of changed the vibe IMO.

 

[blubass]

I have never been on tour but I do have high end equip. and the question I ask may not be that stupid. Now if our amp is running through the board and we have ear monitors or floor monitors so we can hear ourselves(running through the board)Then what do we need our beautiful, great sounding, high dollar cabs for? Am I making any sense?
Thanks for any and all replies

You don't need them, but you will most likely want cabs for the unpredictable. I've done the extensive 15 passenger van touring thing around the country multiple times. I can count on one hand the times that the PA/engineer/venue was actually set up properly for the space provided.

Something is always awash and here's some scenarios...

Great PA, terrible Engineer
Great Engineer who constantly apologizes for the terrible PA he has to run
Big aluminum shack with pro PA, pro Engineer, and worst sound imaginable
PA isn't set up to run IEM's, a monitor dies, or the assistant engineer blows monitors as he compensates for the damage; they fall like dominos
The crowd is so close they can hear the monitors as well as they can the cabs
You land a gig with a pro stage that's super deep and you've never played with your drummer 15 feet behind you on a drum platform up to your chest.
The PA equipment isn't up to scratch, so it's constantly popping and crackling

There's other situations, but these are some of the common ones I've dealt with. There's a lot to be said for any of these situations, each one could be a separate thread pages deep. We got paid so we powered through less than ideal conditions at times.

On bigger tours after I left the band, they were able to scrap cabs all together. The guitarists ran Kempers line-out, and had their IEM's through a racked Mackie setup pre-programmed for tempos, a bass track, and any extraneous sounds they couldn't reproduce live. They brought the cabs just in case, but never pulled them out after they switched to Kempers.

I'm now starting a new band in which the drummer has possession of all of that equipment now, so it's a matter of deciding what really is the best setup for our needs. I'm leaning towards smaller combos, IEM's, and running the Mackie for tempos and set list programming.

Once you get out on the road and start loading/unloading every day you'll quickly learn whether you want to pay roadies, continue to DIY, and/or reevaluate how much gear you truly need.

 

[blubass]

I would imagine any show that big will have a musical director and chief sound engineer and the backline (if any) and FOH would be dictated by the people hired to produce the attraction’s signature sound. If you are getting paid well to sound like goose farts on a muggy day, you are still being paid well. You can roll with it or remain a starving artist alone in their principles.

There's a weird balance in this situation where, if you get picked up on a tour they may or may not let you utilize their engineers. Sometimes the engineers are hired by the touring package as a whole, other times bands are familiar with a particular guy and hire them on for their own personal use. Some of the personal engineers want to work with the lower tier bands to help them reproduce their sound, even if they aren't getting paid from it but obviously the upper tier bands get 100% set up first, so if there's very little time, oh well.

I've encountered a lot of these situations. I always take notes and hang around out of the way. Great information can be had learning from the bigger dogs.

 

[seamonkey]

This isn't being combative at all! The driver in an IEM doesn't need to excite much air to produce low frequencies precisely, so reproducing bass at a reasonable volume is no problem. Like anything new, it takes a bit to get used to them. Don't get me wrong. I love standing in front of a screaming rig from time to time; I just prefer actually hearing what is happening better. Your mileage may vary...

Yes - you hear with ears.
You can feel vibration with you body.
People put the two together, but hearing is what counts.
It may not be as familiar at first without the vibration. Those bass shakers do a good job of making it feel like it use to.

 

[blubass]

Yeah, sure, like I'm going to stand on a 2 ft square and never move off it.

I guess they can be equated to training wheels on a bike... they give you comfort at first, but sooner or later you'll get comfortable, grow up and move on from it

I joke everyone, nobody is judging your training wheels!

 

[micguy]

Who mentioned Leo?

You did, in my opinion, by reference. I thought it kind of interesting, in that, knowing a bit about Leo, many of the stories about him are people talking about ways in which he saved money, because he lived for his art, which didn't support him that well.

 

[fhm555]

You did, in my opinion, by reference. I thought it kind of interesting, in that, knowing a bit about Leo, many of the stories about him are people talking about ways in which he saved money, because he lived for his art, which didn't support him that well.

We are all entitled to our opinion. I just needed something to convey my point that being paid to play what you are told beats starving because you refuse to do so. I figured goose farts on a muggy day would make a good description of a crappy bass tone. It had nothing at all to do with Leo beyond me co-opting his quote.

 

[fhm555]

There's a weird balance in this situation where, if you get picked up on a tour they may or may not let you utilize their engineers. Sometimes the engineers are hired by the touring package as a whole, other times bands are familiar with a particular guy and hire them on for their own personal use. Some of the personal engineers want to work with the lower tier bands to help them reproduce their sound, even if they aren't getting paid from it but obviously the upper tier bands get 100% set up first, so if there's very little time, oh well.

I've encountered a lot of these situations. I always take notes and hang around out of the way. Great information can be had learning from the bigger dogs.

I’ve always been better at looking and listening than talking.

 

[chadds]

.....our talk doesn’t have to be IEMs or 8x10 cabs. There are other choices of very loud, very clear, funky pants flapping cabs that are rather small.

To say again if you value your craft bring what you may need. Everyone’s band is different in contract, opening act, headliner, small club, stadium, mega PA, sound on a stick, so we may need different stuff. Possibly on the same tour.

Had the wonder of being asked by an engineer to use my gear. I had asked did she wish me to go DI because the bassist before did. She wasn’t happy that he’d come unprepared (no amp)(it sounded like it). She said to me, “you took the time to put that rig together, I’m miking it.”
I got to hear myself 4000w of PA worth hitting the buildings across the street. There was no doubt in the crowd or onstage that they got bass and it sounded like me.

So say it doesn’t matter. Okay. It does to me. Life is too short to sound like someone else’s idea of what I sound like. Life is too short to sound generic. People love live music. Back in the 1900s you could go to a multi day festival and no group sounded the same. Hmmmm.

 

[blubass]

She said to me, “you took the time to put that rig together, I’m miking it.”
I got to hear myself 4000w of PA worth hitting the buildings across the street. There was no doubt in the crowd or onstage that they got bass and it sounded like me.

This has been my experience with most engineers. A large percentage of the time they've pulled a post DI signal from the head, mic'd the cab and blended the signal.

The times I remember sound guys strictly doing one or the other, or taking a pre-DI signal is if there were sound constraints, channel limitations, poor equipment, or poor sound guys.

 

[dukeorock]

I only use IEM’s when I have no choice in the matter. Hate em with a passion. Too much disconnect from the audience. Had crew guys that were kind enough to make a platform with buttshakers that was about 4’x4’, but who the heck wants to stand on a tiny platform all night just so your bass can sound sorta like a bass?

People only hear your bass out of FOH? Not for the majority of my gigs. I do tons of gigs where the bass isn’t in the PA at all.

As for the “just plug into a DI and let the sound person deal with it because no one listens or cares about bass anyway” argument. That’s just heartbreaking. If you really think that, I can’t imagine why you’d bother playing music in the first place.

I’ll be bringing amps and cabs, thanks

 

[10cc]

I only use IEM’s when I have no choice in the matter. Hate em with a passion. Too much disconnect from the audience. Had crew guys that were kind enough to make a platform with buttshakers that was about 4’x4’, but who the heck wants to stand on a tiny platform all night just so your bass can sound sorta like a bass?

People only hear your bass out of FOH? Not for the majority of my gigs. I do tons of gigs where the bass isn’t in the PA at all.

As for the “just plug into a DI and let the sound person deal with it because no one listens or cares about bass anyway” argument. That’s just heartbreaking. If you really think that, I can’t imagine why you’d bother playing music in the first place.

I’ll be bringing amps and cabs, thanks

Bring me one of those cabs preferably a dually

 

[eureka kid]

I only use IEM’s when I have no choice in the matter. Hate em with a passion. Too much disconnect from the audience. Had crew guys that were kind enough to make a platform with buttshakers that was about 4’x4’, but who the heck wants to stand on a tiny platform all night just so your bass can sound sorta like a bass?

People only hear your bass out of FOH? Not for the majority of my gigs. I do tons of gigs where the bass isn’t in the PA at all.

As for the “just plug into a DI and let the sound person deal with it because no one listens or cares about bass anyway” argument. That’s just heartbreaking. If you really think that, I can’t imagine why you’d bother playing music in the first place.

I’ll be bringing amps and cabs, thanks

AMEN!!!!

 

[Korladis]

Yeah, sure, like I'm going to stand on a 2 ft square and never move off it.

Ugh, yeah.

While the places I play are a bit more... divey... than the places a lot of posters seem to play in, my experience with touring is that it's best to come prepared for the venue to provide almost nothing. Some venues had all of us in the PA, some had PAs that were barely adequate for just vocals and not really adequate for keys. And I think most of them would have laughed at us if we'd started talking about in-ear monitors and so forth.