Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Question for Touring bassists. Need for cabs?
- Thread starter eureka kid
- Start date
Geddy totally prefers having amps, but his sound tech didn't like it so Geddy deferred.
I don't know where this myth comes from that the audience doesn't hear your amp. Unless you are playing MSG to 20k people, MOST in the audience are hearing at least SOME of your rig, unless the band is VERY contained on stage (which rarely happens). And a DI is just a DI, so whatever tone shaping happens, is going to be based on the PA speakers and the capabilities of the mixer (and any outboard gear if applicable, but now most things are digital). So I've got maybe 3 or 4 bands of parametric EQ and maybe a HPF, going into a reasonably flat PA. So that's it. There's no harmonic saturation, or EQ coloration, or anything like that to warm up a tone straight from a DI. Now in a mix that might not matter too much, but if you are really going for a amp style sound, you are not going to get as close through a DI as you would through an actual amp.
The stage sound, plus the monitor sound, plus the FOH sound all have to combine in a complementary way to form the sound that everyone in the building is going to hear. My experience is the best overall sound starts with an excellent, balanced stage sound for the whole band. Then you bring up the mains to basically make that louder and flatten the balance even more (ie taking some 3.5k out of the overheads, etc...) and make aesthetic adjustments (nice big kick drum, intelligible vocals, etc...). So obviously the bass rig or lack thereof is a big part of that. That's where all your low end comes from and kind of dictates the volumes of everyone else on stage. And unless you have big old school side fills (which are rarely seen any more, even in bigger venues), wedges are just NOT designed for reproducing bass, and in my duty to the venue (or my own gear), the monitors are going to be highpassed fairly aggressively anyway to make sure they don't get damaged.
And air is really important in sound. Our perception and our tastes in sound, are largely based on there being 1 or more layers of actual air movement before a sound hits our ears (ie something that's been miked). That's what sounds natural and good to us, because that's how we've been conditioned over decades. A direct recording of an acoustic guitar on a CD does not usually sound as good as if the same guitar was miked properly. And then if you listen to it on nice speakers vs headphones, that's better as well. This also goes for IEMs which cut out a layer of air (the few milimeters before they hit your ear drums don't do much). That's why they can sound so unnatural unless there's a good amount of processing going on. One of my bands uses a jamhub for practices. And it's a really neat device overall, but I HATE the sound of it, because my bass gets DI'd, the drummer is controlling his own submix (and he always puts WAY too much kick and snare, which are the only things that bypass the headphones themselves and need almost nothing in the jamhub mix), the guitar player is all over the place, keys are all over the place. Keys are also the only thing not happening in the room usually, so they disappear if the direct signal gets too quiet. It's just kind of a mess. Now, with EQ and compression on each channel, we could reign that in somewhat, but we'd still need to mic the bass for it to sound good. At that point, we're talking about roughly $1000 worth of gear just to get a good rehearsal mix. OR we could just set our volumes appropriately in the room (which sadly none of the other guys are particularly great at). Now apply that to a live setting. If the band sounds good onstage, and doesn't try to each have 150db of monitors in front of them, the chances of a great sounding show in the whole room are greatly increased.
The stage sound, plus the monitor sound, plus the FOH sound all have to combine in a complementary way to form the sound that everyone in the building is going to hear. My experience is the best overall sound starts with an excellent, balanced stage sound for the whole band. Then you bring up the mains to basically make that louder and flatten the balance even more (ie taking some 3.5k out of the overheads, etc...) and make aesthetic adjustments (nice big kick drum, intelligible vocals, etc...). So obviously the bass rig or lack thereof is a big part of that. That's where all your low end comes from and kind of dictates the volumes of everyone else on stage. And unless you have big old school side fills (which are rarely seen any more, even in bigger venues), wedges are just NOT designed for reproducing bass, and in my duty to the venue (or my own gear), the monitors are going to be highpassed fairly aggressively anyway to make sure they don't get damaged.
And air is really important in sound. Our perception and our tastes in sound, are largely based on there being 1 or more layers of actual air movement before a sound hits our ears (ie something that's been miked). That's what sounds natural and good to us, because that's how we've been conditioned over decades. A direct recording of an acoustic guitar on a CD does not usually sound as good as if the same guitar was miked properly. And then if you listen to it on nice speakers vs headphones, that's better as well. This also goes for IEMs which cut out a layer of air (the few milimeters before they hit your ear drums don't do much). That's why they can sound so unnatural unless there's a good amount of processing going on. One of my bands uses a jamhub for practices. And it's a really neat device overall, but I HATE the sound of it, because my bass gets DI'd, the drummer is controlling his own submix (and he always puts WAY too much kick and snare, which are the only things that bypass the headphones themselves and need almost nothing in the jamhub mix), the guitar player is all over the place, keys are all over the place. Keys are also the only thing not happening in the room usually, so they disappear if the direct signal gets too quiet. It's just kind of a mess. Now, with EQ and compression on each channel, we could reign that in somewhat, but we'd still need to mic the bass for it to sound good. At that point, we're talking about roughly $1000 worth of gear just to get a good rehearsal mix. OR we could just set our volumes appropriately in the room (which sadly none of the other guys are particularly great at). Now apply that to a live setting. If the band sounds good onstage, and doesn't try to each have 150db of monitors in front of them, the chances of a great sounding show in the whole room are greatly increased.
Depends on your gig. My big events are probably over for good, so I bring a small stage rig most places. But if you’ve got an event with pro guys and gear, you don’t need an amp. You might want one, but you sure won’t need it.
I'm playing ampless, created my sound around a tube preamp for years, and now with Avid Eleven Rack.
I only need a powered PA speaker in front of me for monitor (with HPF at 80hz-100hz), I have the subs for shaking my pants.
If you are not confortable without cabs then why not get a cheap cab that sounds relatively good and leave your high dollar ones at home?
I only need a powered PA speaker in front of me for monitor (with HPF at 80hz-100hz), I have the subs for shaking my pants.
If you are not confortable without cabs then why not get a cheap cab that sounds relatively good and leave your high dollar ones at home?
When I play onstage, my rig is gonna be there and it's gonna rock your socks off! IEM? I don't need no stinkin' IEM!
I use an amp can with my originals band and IEMs at church. There is a huge difference between my SVT and 810 or home built 212 and my tech 21 vt deluxe. Both sound good but the actual
Amp sounds much better. I’ve always accommodated sound guys on volume requests. I don’t want to make his job harder but I don’t drag an 80 pound di box. Throw a mic on it and call it good.
I got used to the isolating feeling of IEMs but the emulation doesn’t sound as good as the real thing when you have both.
Amp sounds much better. I’ve always accommodated sound guys on volume requests. I don’t want to make his job harder but I don’t drag an 80 pound di box. Throw a mic on it and call it good.
I got used to the isolating feeling of IEMs but the emulation doesn’t sound as good as the real thing when you have both.
I tend to like a little amp in the audience. The best tone I ever had live was on a recording taken about 20 feet from the stage directly in front of me at a very large outdoor venue. It was pure Ampeg midrange grind from my SVT and 810 combined with the sub lows of the huge subwoofers.
From the location of where the video was recorded, it was the best live sound I ever had. My amp was running pretty hot volume wise but was not overpowering the FOH mix at all. It added a tad of grind that really made the bass pop in the mix.
Depends on if you’ve already played everywhere you plan to play. Best option is to be prepared for all scenarios. Bring at least a power amp and cab In case you show up at a venue that doesn’t have enough PA support. We’ve played shows where we were told before hand that they had a really nice JBL setup and everything the band needed. Showed up day of the gig and they had two jbl eons and no subs at all. The only things we ended up running through the pa that night was vocals and acoustic guitar we only used for two ballads . It was basically like our rehearsal setup except we we had no pa speakers facing us so we couldn’t hear jack. When you show up Walk in and scope the place out. Introduce yourself to staff so you don’t come off a bad way. The next go back outside and load in whatever gear you need for that particular night. If you’re hauling your gear in a band trailer and don’t need cabs that night leave them locked up in the trailer. If they are in a van make sure you have them covered by a blanket one something to not attract theivesI have never been on tour but I do have high end equip. and the question I ask may not be that stupid.Now if our amp is running through the board and we have ear monitors or floor monitors so we can hear ourselves(running through the board)Then what do we need our beautiful, great sounding, high dollar cabs for? Am I making any sense?
Thanks for any and all replies
I don't. I'm provided with backline and it's always left turned off and sitting there as a backup (kind of a waste, but hey, if they're going to keep providing them...). I run a line from a preamp on my pedal board to my IEM and it's pretty darn close to what I'd want to hear from a cab.
It's a long time ago now but I've toured with an SVT and 810. We did everything from arenas to theatres to small clubs. I used the rig on every gig so that I had consistency of sound in "my office" at every gig.
That means the 20ft square piece of stage in front of my cab.
That means the 20ft square piece of stage in front of my cab.
I have never been on tour but I do have high end equip. and the question I ask may not be that stupid.
Thanks for any and all replies
If you are using IEMs , you need a Buttkicker. They are the best thing since sliced bread.
Buttkicker + IEMs is the answer. You can generate enough shake standing on a Buttkicker, that your eyeballs will be bouncing in your head. No joke.
When I started playing the thing that drew my interest was rumble of a bass. FEELING it thick in the air when the amp was cranked. There’s nothing like playing a front ported rig with the volume up and feeling the wind blow from behind you with every pluck. It’s like it hugs you.
Most monitor situations don’t give me that feeling. Sometimes there is no monitor at all...
Since we live in the modern era it’s possible to get good tone AND volume without breaking your back and bank. So hopefully some of your gear falls in that category?
Most monitor situations don’t give me that feeling. Sometimes there is no monitor at all...
Since we live in the modern era it’s possible to get good tone AND volume without breaking your back and bank. So hopefully some of your gear falls in that category?
I'm not being combative when I ask, how do you play bass with ear monitors only? I can't imagine ear buds loud enough to transmit audible bass notes without highly damaging levels and permanent ear damage? I couldn't play bass in a band environment with full headphones, much less ear buds? I could see having ear monitors, *and* cabs.
"Players utilizing in ear monitors onstage or headphones in the studio will appreciate the Enersquare."
Enersquare - TecAmp
Or a ButtKicker, Bass Shaker, Pleasure Board.
There are some you can wear even.
Enersquare - TecAmp
Or a ButtKicker, Bass Shaker, Pleasure Board.
There are some you can wear even.
