Question on Arpeggios (Theory)

[Russell L]

Not sure if I have played a Minor Blues without the V7 (major triad with a Minor Seventh).

A simple 12-Bar Minor Blues Form usually follows this progression - in E Minor for you guitar-dudes:

||: Em | Em | Em | Em | Am | Am | Em | Em | C | B7 | Em | Em :||

For you music theory-heads:

||: i | i | i | i | iv | iv | i | i | VI | V7 | i | i :||

B. B. King's version of "The Thrill is Gone" might be one of the more famous 12-Bar Minor Blues.

Of course one can modify this progression by altering the V7 (i.e., V7 +5 b9), or adding a sixth to the "iv chord", or make the VI a Dominant Seventh sound (i.e., C7 - which I believe could be explained as a 'German Augmented Sixth Chord' - C, E, G, A# ), or......

Yeah, you don't see a minor v-chord often, but they're out there once in awhile. My bud does one called As the Years Go Passing By (don't know the artist) that has one, although it also goes up a half-step to a major and then back to the minor v-chord. Then, there's another one someone else in the band does (I forget the name of this tune, I'm the new guy yet), but it's all i-iv-v, changing just when you'd think it would in 12-bar form. Kinda neat and different playing that stuff. (BTW, I like a minor triad with an added major 6, makes me think of Gershwin).

 

[dougjwray]

Yeah, you don't see a minor v-chord often, but they're out there once in awhile. My bud does one called As the Years Go Passing By (don't know the artist) that has one, although it also goes up a half-step to a major and then back to the minor v-chord. Then, there's another one someone else in the band does (I forget the name of this tune, I'm the new guy yet), but it's all i-iv-v, changing just when you'd think it would in 12-bar form. Kinda neat and different playing that stuff. (BTW, I like a minor triad with an added major 6, makes me think of Gershwin).

"Ain't No Sunshine" is all minors (its form is unusual, though).
Also, the minor triad with an added major 6 can be thought of as a minor 7 flat 5 (or "half diminished") chord in 1st inversion.

 

[Otso]

Of course there can be a minor v chord, but it doesn't function as a dominant in the same way as a V or a V7 etc does. This would lead to a more "static" modal feel of overall harmony. A key isn't really just a selection of tones (like the thought that C major = use CDEFGAB), it's the chords (arpeggios, emphasized tones of the melody etc) creating tension (dissonances) resolving into more consonant chords (and eventually to a tonic, the "most complete/final resolution" in the key).

 

[Russell L]

"Ain't No Sunshine" is all minors (its form is unusual, though).
Also, the minor triad with an added major 6 can be thought of as a minor 7 flat 5 (or "half diminished") chord in 1st inversion.

I'm working that out in my head here. Lemme see, Cm6 = C Eb G A , so 1st inversion = Eb G A C (in Eb, that's 1 3 b5 6). Uh, ok, but if I put A on bottom, A C Eb G (in A, that's 1 b3 b5 b7, half-diminished, but that would be third inversion, right?).

Aw, I can't get it. Tell me.

EDIT: yeah, I do, never mind. Cm6 (C Eb G A) is the 1st inversion of Am7b5 (A C Eb G ). Yay!

 

[Stick_Player]

My bud does one called As the Years Go Passing By (don't know the artist) that has one, although it also goes up a half-step to a major and then back to the minor v-chord.

I think your bud might be doing a 'personal' arrangement. But, if it's his gig...

The versions I've seen/heard use a good ol' V7.

||: Cm | Fm | Cm | Cm | Fm | Fm | Cm | Cm | G7 | Ab7 G7 | Cm | Cm :||

* * *

"Ain't No Sunshine" is clearly a modal piece of music - Aeolian - even with a v7​ chord.

 

[Russell L]

I think your bud might be doing a 'personal' arrangement. But, if it's his gig...

The versions I've seen/heard use a good ol' V7.

||: Cm | Fm | Cm | Cm | Fm | Fm | Cm | Cm | G7 | Ab7 G7 | Cm | Cm :||

* * *

"Ain't No Sunshine" is clearly a modal piece of music - Aeolian - even with a v7​ chord.

Very well may be, I hadn't ever heard the tune before he was doing it. Anyway, at least we've determined that there are indeed some minor v-chords out there. Whatever that other tune is that the harmonica guy does is just standard 12-bar blues except that ALL the chords are minor. LOL, that's as sad and "dark" as you can get, huh?