Question to (mostly Pro's): losing dexterity playing LIVE! :(

[Ewo]

As mentioned earlier Kenny Werner nails this phenomenon in his book Effortless Mastery.... One thing he says, among others, is that by disassociating your sense of self worth and fulfillment from your playing, you will actually perform better, because much like in your home, it wont matter if you play well or not. For many musicians, when in a live setting, the mind games start; will i play good, I had a great gig last night so i need to be better, what will so and so think, etc, etc all of this counteracts the natural state....

Wow, I sure can relate to this "psych myself out" loop. An anecdote:

A little over a month ago, I got a call to sub for a different band than my current gig. I had a week to try to cram about 70-80 tunes, their entire song list, as they work completely from audibles. I knew maybe a dozen...different genre than my background. So I went down to the gig and did the best I could, expecting it to be rough around the edges. Kept my ears open and eyes on the others, and my intuition served me well even though I didn't know the songs as well as I'd like.

They were really happy with what I did, and said they'd call me if they needed a sub in the future.

Several weeks later, they called and offered me the gig on a permanent basis. I accepted it, and gave notice to my current band.

The first gig with the new band was a side project backing a name country singer on a TV appearance, on the morning show of a broadcast station. Four songs plus bumps to the commercial breaks. I learned the tunes for the show, we rehearsed once, and the show went well. Felt like, "Wow, that was magic." I don't do this kind of performance routinely; it's something of a career highlight, actually.

The same evening there was a bar gig. And I sucked, or at least it felt like I did. I was really unhappy with my performance (too many clams and brain farts), and left there positive they were disappointed with me.

But it turns out that perception was greatly distorted. It was in my head, but not in reality. So I'm learning not to take that hyper-self-critical mindset to be accurate, when it sets in. And to try to avoid getting into that state in the first place.

 

[BassBrass]

In physics now it's a well known fact that observing something changes it. Every watcher of a musician changes the psychic physics of a space, and for many people sets up a self conscious loop within themselves, basically draining relaxed body awareness away.
Everything seems farther away, connections are not being made, etc., always influenced by the person's Belief in the importance of the performance. I felt this way auditioning before the symphony's 1st trumpet, a legend, for entry into the conservatory...
(only one, not me, out of 200 accepted so I went another direction...)
I think the only cure is practice being mobile and yourself on stage and get used to that smaller and smaller bit of self consciousness, recapture your psychic space and occupy it physically. It also helps if you can give yourself to the music, but it takes music you love to do that.

 

[JES]

Care to elaborate? That's just too DEEP for me.

The video is good, the book is helpful too. The self-help tone gets a bit hokey but there is a lot of good advice about getting into the same kind of "flow" in performance that you have in practice. It's based on research they did with athletes, and then adapted for musicians (who have the same problem: "it worked in practice").

 

[Bodeanly]

You mentioned fluidity issues. I have been there done that, can burn through stuff at home yet on the gig i'm not comfortable on a certain couple fast songs I've nailed down hundreds of times. There is something in your sound, be it amp,cabinet, old strings, high action that is making you work harder, less ergonomic. I changed out my amps to give myself more headroom and immediately noticed a difference in how much lighter I play live which has led to better fluidity. There is so much good advice on this thread that I am going to use some of it BTW.

I agree. Most of my fatigue used to come from beating the crap out of my bass because I just couldn't hear myself. The music I play isn't as heavy as it used to be either. Lately, my fingers are fine for 3+ hours; it's my neck and shoulders that are crapping out. Spinal surgery removed me from a tour in '01. I think I focus so much on not using my lower spine that I mess up the upper part of my back. Sorry for the derail. This thread is about fingers. I get a few cups of coffee in me and just start rambling about my own things. I like coffee. I usually have three cups in the morning and two in the afternoon. I'm a teacher, so my students will often give me Starbucks gift cards at the end of every semester. If I have one of those on me, I'll stop for an extra cup. Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was good. This is crap but, hey, I'm in a police station.

 

[Matt Dean]

i'd see a physical therapist that specializes in working with musicians. I'm 58 and do regular hand stretching exercises. I also workout at a gym, lift weights etc. I think this all helps me stay fit and flexible enough to play in three local bands.

 

[Yools]

When you play live, are you subconsciously focusing more on what your fingers are doing and less on hearing the music in your head? I used to have a similar problem with recording; I could effortlessly nail songs in practice or at shows, but when the tape started rolling I would, just like you said, lose dexterity and really struggle with the fast and difficult passages. I would also have difficulty in general trying to master fast and difficult basslines from other people's songs. What really changed things for me was this youtube video:

Hal Galper - The Illusion of the Instrument​

The basic takeaway from it is that playing an instrument is not about the physical aspects of playing; it's about the strength of the signal going from our brain to our hands (or lips, or feet, or whatever we are using to operate the instrument. Skip ahead to 7:00 on the video for a demonstration. The problem that I had was that I got so focused on trying to make my hands do something that I forgot to HEAR the song in my head. That's why it's easy to play those parts during practice - I'm not as concerned about making a mistake, so in my head I'm just hearing the song and playing along. It's not just as simple as the anxiety of the situation causing my muscles to stop working; it's that I focus so much on what my hands are doing that I don't hear the song in my head, and my brain is unable to tell my hand what to do. Since then I have actively tried to implement this in my playing when I play difficult stuff - it's not about what my hands are doing, it's about hearing the song in my head as loudly as possible.

I may be way off in your case, but I suggest that you think about it. You may be doing it without realizing it. Good luck.

-Y

 

[Helix]

Playing live is supposed to be fun, and a way of showing of your talents

If you feel like your tensing up when you get on stage and need to see a phycologist because of it, then I don’t see how that can be of any fun at all, and should maybe think about just doing studio work or just playing in a garage band.

You are doing the rest of the band injustice by being on stage with no confidence in your abilities…….I certainly would not want to jam with you

 

[jassthebass]

A lot of good thoughts here - one thing question that doesn't seem to have been asked is ... when you practice at home do you play along to the CD/backing tracking track?

Whilst that will have to be at least partially be a yes, have you ever played the track/s note for note & nuance for nuance without any backing (and plenty of times too !) ?
Without using any amplification? (obviously a quiet room needed!)
Have you ever recorded yourself using the no backing track method?

I find that difficult passages improve vastly with for me when I adopt that method. For me it really helps that I understand how the song moves/links together from start to finish, to & from any point without any backing because there are so many psychological & aural distractions come show time.
(e.g. drummer/other band members with a slightly different (but not necessarily wrong) groove, being too loud or too quiet in the mix etc.)

I use to have a slight issue with the part post chorus in Easy Livin' by Uriah Heap & I fixed it by my above method

Clearly rehearsals & home practices are completely different beasts to preforming in front of an audience

I apologise if I'm teaching you to suck eggs ... so to speak ...

have a good day all

Jass

 

[Sixgunn]

I find that it's the adrenaline of playing live causing me to play harder and more tensed up. Relaxing and playing like @ rehearsal does the trick for me. Also having an awesome drummer who's tempo doesn't run like wildfire live, helps

 

[Session1969]

I warm up before I go onstage and don't have a problem. I believe you answered your own question. Try warming up on the first song you're going to play about 15 minutes prior to go time and you'll be fine.

 

[LarryR]

To ALL,

First of all, bless you all for your time, sensitivity, knowledge and willingness to share it all! Aint bass players the best!?
I'll be trying out some of your suggestions. I'll pull out my copy of Effortless Mastery too.

To answer a recurring question: I practice sitting, standing, crouching, moving, et al. At home, my "facility" is just fine in any position.

I'm convinced the issue is psychological. Many of your suggestions: relaxing, trying to get used to stage volume and mix (180 degree contrast to 'home' playing), throwing my attention away from my hands, and other suggestions, will be in the forefront. I'll let you all know how it goes. Like I said, I have a gig this Saturday night, so, thankfully I have an imminent testing ground.

Thanks again ya'all!