Question to (mostly Pro's): losing dexterity playing LIVE! :(

[FirewalZ]

To All,
Forgive the "pro's" mention. Reason being, I've played professionally since the early 80's - which means I get paid to play, fly to gigs, played on several continents etc..

I play all styles. Fender 4 banger all my life. Here's my problem:

First, some of my gigs call for fast finger playing; fast runs etc..
At home, ain't never a problem. I can fly like a bird.

I get on the stage, and my finger dexterity (right plucking hand, NOT fret fingering hand) goes to sh_t! the Fluidity is gone!!! It forces me to make adjustments I don't want to make, that certainly don't serve the music, nor my ability to communicate the part/s I'm playing.

Anyone have this problem? Any suggestions? I should be talking to Stanley Clarke about it. This all said, I don't usually warm up backstage prior to hitting the stage. THIS alone could be the problem, and maybe I've answered my own question. STILL, I'm open to all comments. Thanks all!

I you can play one way at home, when there is no pressure to perform or expectations, and when live it doesn't come together....this sounds like a mental block. If you can do it at home you should be able to reproduce it any time. A book called "Effortless Mastery" by Kenny Werner really explains the issue well and can help....

 

[Kmonk]

To All,
Forgive the "pro's" mention. Reason being, I've played professionally since the early 80's - which means I get paid to play, fly to gigs, played on several continents etc..

I play all styles. Fender 4 banger all my life. Here's my problem:

First, some of my gigs call for fast finger playing; fast runs etc..
At home, ain't never a problem. I can fly like a bird.

I get on the stage, and my finger dexterity (right plucking hand, NOT fret fingering hand) goes to sh_t! the Fluidity is gone!!! It forces me to make adjustments I don't want to make, that certainly don't serve the music, nor my ability to communicate the part/s I'm playing.

Anyone have this problem? Any suggestions? I should be talking to Stanley Clarke about it. This all said, I don't usually warm up backstage prior to hitting the stage. THIS alone could be the problem, and maybe I've answered my own question. STILL, I'm open to all comments. Thanks all!

I play a lot and have toured quite a bit. Sometimes doing 4 shows in 3 days. About ten years ago I started developing tiredness and weakening in my right (plucking) hand and wrist. Then I developed chronic tendonitis. It really came down to technique and positioning of my right hand, wrist and arm. I made adjustments over time and rarely have any trouble. Look at how your wrist is resting against your bass. If there is pressure being applied to and area near a tendon or a nerve, it might be causing your problem.

 

[tleebassist11]

I've had a similar problem. I try to do de deep-breathing exercises and some kind of cardio prio to the gig. I can always get warmed up at the house almost instantly, but on stage when nerves kick in my hands have always stayed cold. Yoga, stretching, jumping jacks prior to the gig and light finger stretches have absolutely revitalized that for me. Hope this helps. God bless

 

[Helix]

Maybe spend the day at a spa, with hot towel’s, a message and a manicure to……I’m sure that will help relax you

 

[caligula]

Lots of interesting things have been said already.

My 2 cents.
I used to have similar problems. I could play almost everything I wanted and needed, even technically demanding stuff at home or during rehearsals, but on stage half of it disappeared somehow. That changed when I got in touch with Gary Willis's music and studied with him briefly.
What works for me:
1. a lighter touch helped a lot.
2. I usually practise demanding material extremely slow (25% of the original tempo and slower), even if I can play it faster, I still practise the stuff very slowly.
3. once I reach the original tempo and feel comfortable, I practise as if I needed to play it at a tempo 10% faster. I try to make sure I can perform at 130%, then 100% on stage won't be a problem anymore.
4. I divide my time at home between "practise" and "play". i.d. I practise until it feels right at whatever tempo, then I allow myself some time to only play and not practise the tune. During this "play period" I usually imagine I'm on stage with the band. I usually do this in every practise session.
5. a light touch helped a lot!!
Streching, warming up, etc. certainly help as well. Willis doesn't really warm up though.

(Made a living by playing and teaching full time for roughly 8 years, these days only part time.)

 

[RJC1811]

For me it was lack of conditioning. I could do fine early in the set but if I had a fast part later in the set my fingers would lock up. Sometimes I could get by just using my index finger but always kept a pick handy. Many times I wouldn't even risk it, I would grab the pick right at the start of the song. I am now in better playing shape and it is no longer an issue.

A technique that works for me to reduce tension is to focus on the sound and tone of the notes. If I am nervous about a part or an intro I need to do I just focus on making it sound beautiful. I have learned the part and practiced it so I don't have to worry about playing it but if that is what I focus on the nerves will get to me. If instead I am focusing on expression and tone I block that nervous side of my thinking.

 

[BassFishingInAmerica]

When you practice at home, do you practice sitting down. There is a big difference in hand / arm stress and tension when you play in a standing position.

 

[LowDownHawkeye]

I'm no pro, but I don't think anyone has suggested this yet: could it be related to a difference in the amount of rest time between songs? I imagine there is a large amount of endurance needed to do a 45 minute set with tight transitions between songs, and if it were me I can see myself being more generous on transitions when practicing.

 

[Afc70]

^^ I've found that playing with a light touch and being relaxed, it really allows me to be able to play anything I want. If u tense up, it can be hard to execute really fast or complex things. That's been the key for me!
Gary Willis has some excellent tutorials on YouTube regarding technique that really work.

 

[GBassNorth]

Haven't read all the posts so it may have already been mentioned, but in essence as a bass player, you're an athlete performing in front of an audience. You already know and do all the necessary practice and stretching and warm up routines so that's not the issue. If it seems to hit only when you're on stage under the bright lights then its most likely a psych issue. Sports psychologists specialize in helping you find what's causing the block and then overcoming it. Pro tennis players are heavy sports psych users as are pro bowlers and golfers. I'm sure you can find one in your area, just look for one that focuses on and treats the professional sports community, not a typical shrink that deals outside the sports community.

 

[FirewalZ]

As mentioned earlier Kenny Werner nails this phenomenon in his book Effortless Mastery.... One thing he says, among others, is that by disassociating your sense of self worth and fulfillment from your playing, you will actually perform better, because much like in your home, it wont matter if you play well or not. For many musicians, when in a live setting, the mind games start; will i play good, I had a great gig last night so i need to be better, what will so and so think, etc, etc all of this counteracts the natural state....

 

[Helix]

Gotta love the TBers trying to help. We went from some simple stretching and warm ups, to a full on psych evaluation

 

[David A. Egeler]

Look at the way you are practicing in your home, are you sitting down, or standing, or sitting on a mid chair. The difference could be in your wrist angle at your forearm, laying on the bass body. Just at the right angle you can pinch a nerve and fatigue your finger movement. Also look at the strap location and height with the instrument against your body. Sounds goofy but I know a couple of surgeons that actually put there hands in very warm wax in crock pots, because of the fatigue in there joints after a long surgery. And don't forget to drink your water and not alcohol during a gig, it does keep you a little on top of the game, Good luck,,,,,,

 

[FirewalZ]

Gotta love the TBers trying to help. We went from some simple stretching and warm ups, to a full on psych evaluation

I totally understand that angle and it certainly does seem like we are making things more complicated than they need to be. However the OP did state that at home he can play one way and live another, this is common among performers and music IS a mental game whether we want it to be or not.

 

[sanwin17]

Look at the way you are practicing in your home, are you sitting down, or standing, or sitting on a mid chair. The difference could be in your wrist angle at your forearm, laying on the bass body. Just at the right angle you can pinch a nerve and fatigue your finger movement. Also look at the strap location and height with the instrument against your body. Sounds goofy but I know a couple of surgeons that actually put there hands in very warm wax in crock pots, because of the fatigue in there joints after a long surgery. And don't forget to drink your water and not alcohol during a gig, it does keep you a little on top of the game, Good luck,,,,,,

I second that emotion.

 

[Toddbass65]

I would look at your volume settings and how hard you are plucking. Usually at home we can hear ourselves easily, so we can be heard with a lighter touch. On the gig, where volume wars are present, and we fight to hear ourselves, we tend to dig in a bit more and this will hinder your speed and tire out your hand. Even if you can hear yourself, in the heat of the moment, we can get excited and start playing harder than usual.

Exactly this - has happened to me at a great gig when it was packed and sound was super. Got a little too aggressive and my right hand cramped right up and closed shut! We took an early break so I could pry my sore
right hand open again.....no lie.....needed help! BOY did i play gingerly the last set!!! Turned my volume up on stage and really just played lightly. Made it through the night. I do this all the time now and never happened
again. That and drinking a bottle of OJ on the way to the gig has helped me. OJ is huge for potassium..............aka..............anti-cramping.
Really hope this helps, as I know how that scared me. Very careful now and so far so good. Good luck!

 

[trevcda]

After glossing over all the responses so far, everything I would suggest has already been said including confirmation that your practicing in the position that you play in. I would touch on the proper stretching suggestion again and offer this; when playing a multi set night the first set is or can be that stretch or warm up that gets you through to the next sets. If you doing a single set on a fly/fill in you don't get that same warm up time. You have to do that before you hit the stage. And, unfortunately, it becomes more important as you get older. As far as shying away from loud PA reinforcement, you're going to have to figure out if it's because of the disconnect from your stage sound or because you feel like you're too loud out front. You sound like you rehearse the heck out of your material. Know that in your head. You've done your homework. Now let the FOH guys do theirs. Play it with conviction and let them do their job and mix the band. If it feels disconnected, bring up your back line a little or put some bass in your wedge so you're hearing that more than what's coming off of the back wall from FOH, although that can be tough in a 25K barn with bad acoustics! It is easier if your zeroing in on the sound of your rig.

 

[sanwin17]

Also, maybe you don't hear yourself well enough on stage when the rest of the band is playing. So, you're playing harder on the gig then you do in practice and tightening up or tiring faster. Forgive me if this is redundant. I didn't have the patience to read through all the responses.

 

[Helix]

I totally understand that angle and it certainly does seem like we are making things more complicated than they need to be. However the OP did state that at home he can play one way and live another, this is common among performers and music IS a mental game whether we want it to be or not.

True, he did say that.....I apologize if I sounded like a bit of smart a@s with that comment.

But he also said that he doesn't warm up, and at his age since he stated that he has been "Globe Trotting" since the 80's, I seriously doubt that a case of state fright has developed at this stage of the game.

When you get older you just can't expect to just walk in and play an hour or two set without warming up and stretching.

But to look at the mental side of it, I guess wouldn't hurt either.

 

[gary19702]

at risk of repeating anyone here I recommend strongly proper stretching of not just your hands but the arms themselves, the entire tendon track benefits from being limber before playing, also being mentally relaxed and hydrated are pluses to be sure but overall stretching and not becoming tense mentally are my top concerns pre gig.