Questions about building a body.

[line6man]

This is quite true^^^

I travel around 1.25 hr to my main wood broker, as much as 5 hours to a couple where I buy specific large quantities(rare, but happens). The first step in being successful in this business, especially the building end, is to have a good source for wood that IS NOT ONLINE. Sometimes we all have to rely on the net for woods but if you rely on Websites for wood, you will never run anything efficiently, and your cost overrun will be outrageous.
$260 for a body blank? 4 hours to make it? No, time involved in making a body Blank with joining, thicknessing, and clamping (EVEN with bookmatched top and back) is 2 hours.(UNLESS it is all done by hand tools, then this could be realistic) I can see $260 for the blank if the wood cost $180, but someone charging you that in shop/labor costs is really proud of their clamping skills....LOL

To start building, find woodworkers in your area that work both domestic and exotic woods. Talk to them, tell them what you want to do, and that you are looking for where to buy woods/lumber stock from. Most times they will help you out, but there are idiots that will be closed mouth, so have thick skin.....

I agree, and I've seen the differences between what some online sources are charging, and what a guy on Facebook was telling me his wood cost from a local guy.

I'm still on the lookout for a local woodyard, aside from the one that's 90 miles away. I really just don't want to take a 90 mile trip.

I'm not going to mention the price Mike is giving me, unless he wants to say it himself, but it's absolutely nowhere near $260 in labor. Now of course, this is a one time thing, so if I want to build another body, I'll have to figure something out, but I suppose I could set up a router planing jig and buy a bunch of clamps. I wouldn't mind doing that next time.

 

[Beej]

Not to be facetious line6man (especially since you've personally helped me with schematics in the past and I'm eternally grateful), but have you tried the yellow pages? A quick google search turned up three hardwood suppliers in the los angeles area. This place looks pretty pro and might be close enough to visit in person: Invalid Link Removed

 

[line6man]

Not to be facetious line6man (especially since you've personally helped me with schematics in the past and I'm eternally grateful), but have you tried the yellow pages? A quick google search turned up three hardwood suppliers in the los angeles area. This place looks pretty pro and might be close enough to visit in person: Invalid Link Removed

I did look in the yellow pages, and most of the listings were for hardwood flooring suppliers. I figured that wouldn't be the type of wood supplier for musical instrument woods, but I need to contact a few places and see what they say.

 

[Musiclogic]

Mike is a good guy, nobody needs to reveal prices here, it's against the rules anyway...LOL. Mike will do a good job for you, I was just commenting on your quote saying $260...LOL. I just was making a point so others reading this thread understood the reality of how wood is acquired by most "Pro's", and how we actually do things

 

[line6man]

Mike is a good guy, nobody needs to reveal prices here, it's against the rules anyway...LOL. Mike will do a good job for you, I was just commenting on your quote saying $260...LOL. I just was making a point so others reading this thread understood the reality of how wood is acquired by most "Pro's", and how we actually do things

That was Mike's quote though. See post two.

 

[line6man]

I picked up a two-piece Alder body blank on eBay to practice with.

Can anyone refer me to a tutorial or something on how to contour a body?

I IM'd with a guy that said he does his bodies with a Microplane tool. Perhaps I need to pick one up. I have a belt sander, random orbital sander and palm sander, if those are useful?

 

[line6man]

I went ahead and ordered the StewMac templates and their 3/8" bit.
I just wish they were cheaper, but whatever.

 

[Meatrus]

I picked up a two-piece Alder body blank on eBay to practice with.

Can anyone refer me to a tutorial or something on how to contour a body?

I IM'd with a guy that said he does his bodies with a Microplane tool. Perhaps I need to pick one up. I have a belt sander, random orbital sander and palm sander, if those are useful?

Do you mean an arch top? If so there is a tutorial here http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f57/top-carving-your-old-friend-scott-french-184826/.

 

[line6man]

Do you mean an arch top? If so there is a tutorial here http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f57/top-carving-your-old-friend-scott-french-184826/.

Tummy cut and forearm contour.

 

[mikeyswood]

I'm out.

 

[ThrashMaster]

StewMac tools are expensive for a reason.

bologna, pure and simple. 99% of what they sell can be had cheaper elsewhere, and better quality.

Example: their 'straight' edges

Some things theyre the only game in town and then you gotta bite the bullit.

 

[line6man]

bologna, pure and simple. 99% of what they sell can be had cheaper elsewhere, and better quality.

Example: their 'straight' edges

Some things theyre the only game in town and then you gotta bite the bullit.

I'm not educated enough in this field to argue it, but I would be inclined to agree. A lot of what StewMac sells just seems expensive, not necessarily better than anyone else's offerings.
I have seen a number of cool things they sell, however, that seem like they would be very difficult to find elsewhere, so in those cases, you 'gotta shell out the money.
I've seen some plain-out stupid stuff, too. They sell a tool for removing tremolo bridge springs. IME, using a pair of locking pliers works perfectly fine. There is no need for ridiculous tools to put springs on a guitar, and AFAIK, Leo Fender even designed the Stratocaster so that it could be adjusted with regular, non-specialized tools.

Side note, I've hit a little bump in the road, and Mike will no longer be preparing the body blank. I did get a quote from another guy, so hopefully that will work out.

 

[Beej]

Although stewmac does sell some stuff that is less than unique for somewhat premium prices, I disagree that it's 99% of their stuff. If you pick up their catalog, rather than just perusing their website, they carry a large number of specialized tools that may not make sense to the hobbyist, but will assist a busy repair shop. This was their original intention, so it's worth keeping that in mind. Although there are quite a few things that one can figure a way around, stewmac is still a very useful resource if you want the right tool for the job.

And no, I'm not anything near a corporate shill for them...

 

[SurferJoe46]

Actually there are lots of places to buy pretty much the same tools as SM.

I have a fine collection of fret files from Douglas Aircraft and they cost me 50¢ for four at a time. Gawd knows what they used them for as I've never seen frets on a space shuttle or a 747.

Same thing with the very long shanked drills - and although most are #30s, they prove just the right size for bridge tunnels for the ground wires.

Other things like riffler files and mill bastards are all under a buck each - some even two-fers.

I'm sure they cost Douglas dozens of dollars each if not much more - so this is a nice discount for some extremely fine and well-crafted NASA quality tools that far exceed SM's QC.

I've even bought milling bits and countersinks that are very nice to have for guitar work and plastic/wood routing and round-overs.

So - actually there is nothing new under the sun and there are other sources for SM's tools if one is interested enough to look for them.

 

[Musiclogic]

Although stewmac does sell some stuff that is less than unique for somewhat premium prices, I disagree that it's 99% of their stuff. If you pick up their catalog, rather than just perusing their website, they carry a large number of specialized tools that may not make sense to the hobbyist, but will assist a busy repair shop. This was their original intention, so it's worth keeping that in mind. Although there are quite a few things that one can figure a way around, stewmac is still a very useful resource if you want the right tool for the job.

And no, I'm not anything near a corporate shill for them...

^^^This is the plain truth, not sugar coated, yet put in that easy going WestCoast way...LOL

YES, you can look and look, and find stuff that can work reasonably well for certain tasks. Long shaft, 3/8" pattern bit with 7/16" cutter height for working with 1/4" templates but still able to go 3/4" into the body? NO you will buy this from Stew mac or pay a custom fee for Whiteside, or Freud, or Amana to make it for you.

The key to Stew mac, LMI and others of the ilk is that their tools are designed for specific "INSTRUMENT RELATED" tasks.
NOT ALL of their tools are unique to Luthiers and or Guitar enthusiasts, but they are all available in ONE PLACE, and that is why they can get the prices. Much Like Home Stores, or Bed and Bath stores, you can find what they sell other places, but you can get it all there instead of having to go to auctions, hardware stores, novelty stores, shop supply houses, etc. Stew Mac sells stuff that is designed to fit the Guitar/Bass, tools that are sized properly for working on these instruments(and a few others). If you have a problem with their prices, and you don't need it soon, go hunt it down, but for those of us that are in this business, making a living, working on guitars and basses everyday, NOT at our leisure, these retailers can be indispensible. You are a hobbiest, you will never understand this, and continue to spew your malcontented misrepresentations of the facts. I can buy most anything from the Stew Mac catalog and it will be at my door at 10am the next morning...THIS I can count on, and REAL builders and Luthiers such as myself NEED this to stay in business. That is the reality you cannot understand.

 

[Musiclogic]

I'm not educated enough in this field to argue it, but I would be inclined to agree. A lot of what StewMac sells just seems expensive, not necessarily better than anyone else's offerings.

***I have seen a number of cool things they sell, however, that seem like they would be very difficult to find elsewhere, so in those cases, you 'gotta shell out the money.***

you answered your own statement.

I've seen some plain-out stupid stuff, too. They sell a tool for removing tremolo bridge springs. IME, using a pair of locking pliers works perfectly fine. There is no need for ridiculous tools to put springs on a guitar, and AFAIK, Leo Fender even designed the Stratocaster so that it could be adjusted with regular, non-specialized tools.

Nothing personal, but this is a really bad example(or set of...) as you have obviously never had to remove Tune-o-matic studs from a Vintage LP to do a crack repair, or refinish. People do not appreciate you gouging up their tops just because you were too cheap to use a stud elevatior to remove them, or maybe the guy needing to replace a broken or stripped Floyd Rose stud...and maybe it has that cool George Lynch Skull airbrush job on it....yep, that stuck stud is worth destroying that paint job, turn a $50job, into a -$250 job while you have the airbrush job repaired. The stud elevator allows a luthier to remove a stud the way it went in, straight, so it doesn't come out at an angle and screw up the finish, or chip out the wood.
And the key word here on the "Leo" statement is "Adjusted" yes, he wanted musicians with common tools to be able to adjust the strat, NOT Repair.

 

[Beej]

Actually there are lots of places to buy pretty much the same tools as SM.

I have a fine collection of fret files from Douglas Aircraft and they cost me 50¢ for four at a time. Gawd knows what they used them for as I've never seen frets on a space shuttle or a 747.

Same thing with the very long shanked drills - and although most are #30s, they prove just the right size for bridge tunnels for the ground wires.

Other things like riffler files and mill bastards are all under a buck each - some even two-fers.

I'm sure they cost Douglas dozens of dollars each if not much more - so this is a nice discount for some extremely fine and well-crafted NASA quality tools that far exceed SM's QC.

I've even bought milling bits and countersinks that are very nice to have for guitar work and plastic/wood routing and round-overs.

So - actually there is nothing new under the sun and there are other sources for SM's tools if one is interested enough to look for them.

Well, point taken, but at the same time, none of the tools you described would fit the category of specialized luthiery tools. They are all basically variations of common stuff you can find all over the place. To echo JC (without his obvious increasing frustration, lol) the hobbyist usually has the time and inclination to modify existing tools or fab up new ones to get the job done and save cash if necessary, but sometimes some items are not worth spending this time and energy on when you can buy one at a slight premium. Case in point is Dan Erlewine's shop stand. Retails for around 200 bucks and I laughed when it first came out, but after actually using one, I was pleasantly surprised at all the little details. Frankly, there is no way I could build that myself including my time for less than 200 plus shipping. Definitely not a tool for the hobbyist, but it will speed up a pro repairman's ability to get stuff done quick. There are lots of other little tools in their pages that are similar. Again, point taken and I'm no shill, but there is more to this than meets the casual eye...

 

[Musiclogic]

Well, point taken, but at the same time, none of the tools you described would fit the category of specialized luthiery tools. They are all basically variations of common stuff you can find all over the place. To echo JC (without his obvious increasing frustration, lol) the hobbyist usually has the time and inclination to modify existing tools or fab up new ones to get the job done and save cash if necessary, but sometimes some items are not worth spending this time and energy on when you can buy one at a slight premium. Case in point is Dan Erlewine's shop stand. Retails for around 200 bucks and I laughed when it first came out, but after actually using one, I was pleasantly surprised at all the little details. Frankly, there is no way I could build that myself including my time for less than 200 plus shipping. Definitely not a tool for the hobbyist, but it will speed up a pro repairman's ability to get stuff done quick. There are lots of other little tools in their pages that are similar. Again, point taken and I'm no shill, but there is more to this than meets the casual eye...

Really Beej..."increasing frustration" was it that blatant? LMAO...yeah...maybe so, I just hate what I do for a living diminished when someone doesn't understand the need for specialty tools. Sorry if it came off as krass, was not intended as such.

 

[SurferJoe46]

ibid- but there is more to this than meets the casual eye...

Of course. but as a tool junkie myself with tools from Snap-On, Matco and Sun, etc., I can understand loyalty to a brand name too.

Really though - a common straight edge for yards of money is kinda far out - nicht war?

I guess there's a niche market out there - but some of the pride I find is in making the tools and accessories that I need for a job and yes: I do see the non-viability of that for some busy persons in the trade.

Fortunately being retired now - I have a favored hobby (enter my muse here) that has not turned into a job for a nine-to-five remunerative paycheck and it's one that I can still enjoy, being just creative.

Whenever I found that my secular job became a means to an end I moved on to greener and less money-driven venues. I guess what's germane to me is that pride has no inflated price tag. But I can say that being retired now.

 

[line6man]

you answered your own statement.



Nothing personal, but this is a really bad example(or set of...) as you have obviously never had to remove Tune-o-matic studs from a Vintage LP to do a crack repair, or refinish. People do not appreciate you gouging up their tops just because you were too cheap to use a stud elevatior to remove them, or maybe the guy needing to replace a broken or stripped Floyd Rose stud...and maybe it has that cool George Lynch Skull airbrush job on it....yep, that stuck stud is worth destroying that paint job, turn a $50job, into a -$250 job while you have the airbrush job repaired. The stud elevator allows a luthier to remove a stud the way it went in, straight, so it doesn't come out at an angle and screw up the finish, or chip out the wood.
And the key word here on the "Leo" statement is "Adjusted" yes, he wanted musicians with common tools to be able to adjust the strat, NOT Repair.

I'm talking about this little hook tool.
Invalid Link Removed

Like I said though, I'm not educated enough in this field to have a real opinion, I'm just saying what it looks like from my point of view.