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Questions about church gig

L

LBS-bass

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Nov 22, 2017
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#1
I know there is a praise and worship club but I wanted to ask this as a more general question.

One of the guys I play with is musical director for a small church that rents space from another church and caters to a very specific group. The church is new and they meet monthly right now. He's recruited me into the music part, which is fine, not the first time I've ended up a ringer in a church situation, but the first time not singing with the choir that way.

My question for those who play these kinds of gigs as fill-in players is whether any of you are getting paid and, if so, what's the general rate? He's paying barely enough to make it worth setup time but I do enjoy playing with him, and it's a church, so I'm not really complaining, but I'm also not a church member. So I'm wondering if there's a shot at better pay from this down the road, or even a shot at additional paying gigs like this. Any thoughts are appreciated, but on-topic thoughts are the most welcome ;) .
 
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#2
LBS-bass said:
I know there is a praise and worship club but I wanted to ask this as a more general question.

One of the guys I play with is musical director for a small church that rents space from another church and caters to a very specific group. The church is new and they meet monthly right now. He's recruited me into the music part, which is fine, not the first time I've ended up a ringer in a church situation, but the first time not singing with the choir that way.

My question for those who play these kinds of gigs as fill-in players is whether any of you are getting paid and, if so, what's the general rate? He's paying barely enough to make it worth setup time but I do enjoy playing with him, and it's a church, so I'm not really complaining, but I'm also not a church member. So I'm wondering if there's a shot at better pay from this down the road, or even a shot at additional paying gigs like this. Any thoughts are appreciated, but on-topic thoughts are the most welcome ;) .
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It's all negotiable.

It's best to have a discussion about these things with the WL up front, instead of harboring false hopes. That will also put you both on the same page regarding expectations.

Talk it out.
 
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#3
Thank you. It sounds like he's recruiting some heavy-hitters to be in this worship group, so the gig could provide some great connections, if nothing else. I seriously don't feel as though I'm anywhere close to the same league as some of these people, so it remains to be seen if anything might come of that aspect. But I do enjoy playing with excellent players.
 
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#8
If I am following correctly the church only meets once a month, its is not asking you to sub for the regular musicians one weekend a month. In many cases those churches renting space from a legacy church are much better off financially. Usually with a more charismatic teaching elder than the legacy church, which might have a pastor assigned to it from a higher body, has. However real estate prices have prevented them from taking that next step.

This church meeting once of month does not seem to be drawing a greater number of attendees than the legacy church on the campus, nor in a pay position yet. I expect its members see it as a fellowship but attend and give their base offerings to the church that they attend three times a month. That they can attract better musicians is because it may be come a regular bible study and jam session. But it might a bible study and X fellowship for the base congregation with another interest. A interest like they are bikers, an ethnic group, a similar secular employment, etc.
 
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#9
Jhengsman said:
If I am following correctly the church only meets once a month, its is not asking you to sub for the regular musicians one weekend a month. In many cases those churches renting space from a legacy church are much better off financially. Usually with a more charismatic teaching elder than the legacy church, which might have a pastor assigned to it from a higher body, has. However real estate prices have prevented them from taking that next step.

This church meeting once of month does not seem to be drawing a greater number of attendees than the legacy church on the campus, nor in a pay position yet. I expect its members see it as a fellowship but attend and give their base offerings to the church that they attend three times a month. That they can attract better musicians is because it may be come a regular bible study and jam session. But it might a bible study and X fellowship for the base congregation with another interest. A interest like they are bikers, an ethnic group, a similar secular employment, etc.
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It’s actually an offshoot of another church, led by the same pastor, that meets weekly in another part of town. They’re outgrowing the current space already so the next congregation will be in the larger rentable sanctuary where there’s a big stage, hence the push to bring in some serious musical heft. So I don’t know what the financial situation situation is but I know it isn’t terribly dire.

And yes, I’m not subbing, I’m this guy’s go-to bassist and he’s asked me to play this gig when the church meets. The first meeting was last month, the room was SRO, there were people in the parking lot, and he and I were there for that opening service.
 
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#11
How many gigs do you play now? Do you work a day job? Does this gig require week night rehearsals?

For me, I would want it to at least equal the hourly that I look for in any other non special event gig which is 50/hr. If it can't be there right away then I would have a talk about what I want and set an expectation for getting there. In my local area these things are tough because the church bands are mostly made of of lay people. These musicians often need/want to rehearse during the week for a couple of hours even if that weeks songs are made up of material that they have played many times over.
 
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#12
Churches pay the minister, they pay the utilities, and custodian. Why not musicians?
I was asked once to play a church gig. I asked about the pay and was told it was for the 'glory of God'. I asked them, "If its for the glory of God, why do it on the cheap?". I didn't get the gig.
 
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#13
I think it's very common for many churches, particularly small ones, to not only not pay, but to not even think of paying. In fact, I think in the church I grew up in there was a pretty strict rule against paying anyone for performance during actual worship meetings. Which sounds harsh. But they didn't allow for anything other than piano and the occasional violin or flute. Percussion and amplified guitars were not even considered. There were generally enough non-pro piano players to handle everything.

I've played recently in a guitarist friend's church (just back up guitar), but didn't expect payment. It was a favor I enjoyed. If I were a pro, or at least a regular praise musician in the church, I might think otherwise. I do know the musical director is a full time salaried position at this congregation, if that means anything. It's not a mega-church by any means.

If you feel comfortable, it would probably be good to ask the leader if there will be compensation. It's always going to be an uncomfortable conversation, I think. Try to make it as respectful and diplomatic as possible.
 
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#15
I have played for many years at the churches where I am a member. Sometimes I get paid but, often do not. I am generally Ok with that since it is my choice. I also am the defacto sound guy because I have a small sound company and the necessary experience. I don't expect to get paid for sound consulting for the church, but if physical work is involved and it is something they would have to pay some other pro for, I demand pay for my services be it at a reduced rate. The last such instance was an outdoor service for which I was asked to provide sound with one day's notice when their original guy bailed. I quoted them my reduced rate and made it clear that I would not do it for free; too much work involved hauling and setting gear up. They agreed and I was able to hire a helper at the last minute. We got set up and ready when the church staff decided the grass was too wet and moved the service inside. An outdoor picnic followed at the same location so we just played recorded music for the picnic.

I advised the decision makers that I expected to get paid since I did my part. I didn't have to stay and play the recorded stuff and made it clear to them that since I was already set up that this part was a favor. Several church members thanked us for providing the recorded music, but I think the decision makers were a little pissed that I still charged them. I don't feel bad about charging for providing sound, I play bass at this church for free.

As to the OP question: in this area it seems like payment for playing at church is all over the place. Some churches pay their musicians and their sound person, others expect it to be volunteer. My church frequently pays hired guns when they are needed, but it is at a low rate. Larger churches in the nearby city pay as much as $80 to $100 per musician per service. Any necessary rehearsals are unpaid.

Thump on,

One_Dude
 
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#16
If the guy's heart is in the right place, tou should be able to have a conversation with him without offending him. If it's bugging you, chat it out.

I don't accept pay for church gigs. But that's me. I'm not judging. You do you.

I know drummers have accepted pay from my church. But they are young broke kids, so it was pretty much charity. :D
 
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#17
Lizooki said:
Ok .... I'll be the bad (GOOD!) guy.
If you're playing in a church for money ..... you're doing it for the wrong reason.
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So you have expected Bach to work for free? Is the janitor cleaning up for the love of the Lord? (When I had that gig, it was 13.50/hour) Yes, trying to shame musicians into working for no money does make you a bit of a bad guy.

$50-60 for the morning is about right.
 
#18
It depends.

If it was my church, I would play for free, unless I absolutely needed the money.

I played for a mega church for several years with a pro music program and setup and made $250 a weekend. Had to pick up music early in week and be ready for Saturday 1 1/2 rehearsal and service/taping plus two services on Sunday. Long extended arrangements. At least two of the 5 or 6 tunes each week for brand new. Great learning experience, but no spiritual message for me there.

On my bucket list: Play authentic African American Gospel music. My wife says I wont fit in (kind of pale as Clarence Carter would say.)
 
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#20
Churches typically compensate the pastor and worship leader, but rarely compensate their musicians, which are usually recruited from within the congregation, and who view their contribution as their service to God.

More affluent churches have a larger budget for music, and may hire key personnel or to backfill unfilled positions. A few really affluent churches (like those that are televised) will often only hire experienced professionals—not trusting the final musical product to volunteers.

If you are a religious person, and don’t mind playing for the glory of God, then you shouldn’t ask about money.

If you are a professional musician who relies upon fair payment for services rendered, then you should ask about pay, and either accept or refuse accordingly.
 
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