Questions about church gig

[LBS-bass]

I posted something but deleted because it didn't come out the way I wanted it to. A few things I should clarify: I'm not a member of the church, so expecting me to make a regular commitment in the interest of faith alone is not realistic, unless you are also willing to show up once a month to play at the Buddhist temple I used to attend. I've got no problem with people of faith, but this church isn't my own place of worship. I don't think there are currently others in the congregation who could step up to the plate in this role in a way that the musical director would be satisfied with. That could change, but there's a reason he's asked me to do it.

The stage time isn't that important to me but I do enjoy playing with this guy a lot, so that's a compelling reason to do it for less money than the time is worth. However, I'm in three bands (one with the music director guy) so I don't really need the stage time. The opportunity to connect with other good players in the area is attractive, if the MD manages to bring in some of the people he's talking about. And I don't think those are players who will do anything for free, either.

To sum it up, from what most of you are saying, it sounds like it would be reasonable for me to have a talk with him about better compensation once this church is established and seems to be doing well.

 

[LBS-bass]

It depends.

If it was my church, I would play for free, unless I absolutely needed the money.

I played for a mega church for several years with a pro music program and setup and made $250 a weekend. Had to pick up music early in week and be ready for Saturday 1 1/2 rehearsal and service/taping plus two services on Sunday. Long extended arrangements. At least two of the 5 or 6 tunes each week for brand new. Great learning experience, but no spiritual message for me there.

On my bucket list: Play authentic African American Gospel music. My wife says I wont fit in (kind of pale as Clarence Carter would say.)

When I was a member of the local Episcopal church, I sang in their top-tier choir for free. It was a serious commitment with rehearsals once a week and again before the service on Sunday when we sang.

They did have one paid singer in each vocal range: a paid soprano, a paid tenor, and so on. I have no idea what they were paid, but I know they were not church members. That choir traveled the world, probably still does, but I ended up leaving that church before I had a chance to travel with them.

 

[deepender]

Thank you. It sounds like he's recruiting some heavy-hitters to be in this worship group, so the gig could provide some great connections, if nothing else. I seriously don't feel as though I'm anywhere close to the same league as some of these people, so it remains to be seen if anything might come of that aspect. But I do enjoy playing with excellent players.

Never avoid hooking up with players who are more advanced than you.

There's something about making music with more advanced, and ever players of styles different from our own, that causes us to grow in leaps and bounds.

Maybe it's symbiosis...

 

[deepender]

So you have expected Bach to work for free? Is the janitor cleaning up for the love of the Lord? (When I had that gig, it was 13.50/hour) Yes, trying to shame musicians into working for no money does make you a bit of a bad guy.

$50-60 for the morning is about right.

I think he was speaking more to motive than he was trying to throw shade.

Speaking only of myself, if I were standing on that stage thinking, "Making money!", instead of having a heart full of worship, then I should leave the stage.

The two are in no case mutually exclusive.

But the money, in my mind, can not become more important than the worship.

That is the meaning I got out of his statement.

 

[saabfender]

I think he was speaking more to motive than he was trying to throw shade.

Speaking only of myself, if I were standing on that stage thinking, "Making money!", instead of having a heart full of worship, then I should leave the stage.

The two are in no case mutually exclusive.

But the money, in my mind, can not become more important than the worship.

That is the meaning I got out of his statement.

Being purely mercenary in motivation isn’t really optimal for any musical situation. Although I’m not proud of it, there’s been times in all kinds of gigs (church gigs) when things have been marginal that I’ve been able to comfort myself with “well at least it’s $xxx”.

I’m just always rankled by the notion that full-quality musicians should ever be expected to play for free. I don’t think it does anyone involved any favors.

 

[LBS-bass]

Being purely mercenary in motivation isn’t really optimal for any musical situation. Although I’m not proud of it, there’s been times in all kinds of gigs (church gigs) when things have been marginal that I’ve been able to comfort myself with “well at least it’s $xxx”.

I’m just always rankled by the notion that full-quality musicians should ever be expected to play for free. I don’t think it does anyone involved any favors.

I think there's a time and place for everything. If this were my church and I went there weekly (or monthly, in this case) anyway, I'd certainly do it for free. I've played benefit shows to raise money for people who were sick and uninsured, and benefits to raise money for flood victims. To be frank, I can't think of a single time I ever stood on stage and thought about my paycheck. That's not why I do this, but back when I made my living exclusively this way it was very meaningful that someone actually would pay me to have this much fun.

These days, though, I don't gig as often and the paying gigs are all less lucrative. I have a weekly commitment every Sunday that I'll now have to cancel once a month in order to play this gig. That's also a musical thing, but there's backline there and it's plug and play, no work and all fun. So I'm just exploring what's normal to expect for this situation.

Thanks to everyone who responded. I appreciate your help.

 

[darwin-bass]

@LBS-bass, great question. I'll chime in from the perspective of a church member. I am on the team 3 or 4 Sundays per month. I play bass, e-gtr or run sound. In our church of ~250 I'm the best we have in each of those slots. I also end up doing PA gear repair and maintenance, plus help with some of the musical arrangements. Each week we have a mid-week practice and then the run-through on Sunday morning at 8:00. Wife and I have to drive separately and we rarely get to sit together.

Our music director is paid a few hundred $ each month. The rest of us on this ~20 person team are 100% volunteers.

So, do I think we should be paid? I'm on the fence. Truthfully, I'm good enough, involved enough and reliable enough that being paid would be appropriate - BUT - many on the team are more amateurish in their approach. They show up to practice late, unprepared and just wing it on Sunday. Mediocrity is the norm. I stick out like a sore thumb and I'm not sure I really fit with this team.

Of course, were we to pay we would be able to then expect professionalism in return but I'm not sure that would go over well with most.

Also, were we to pay, there would be a temptation for people to be part of it for the money. Or perhaps they'd linger in the role longer than they should because they don't want to lose the income. Currently we run that risk only with the leader the leader.

Yea, but what about you? If I were the leader and you were coming in as an outsider helping us by providing a pro-level skilled service, I'd be happy to pay. If you were like the rest of the team (partially committed, unprepared, winging it in a mediocre way) then not so much.

 

[Wasnex]

I know there is a praise and worship club but I wanted to ask this as a more general question.

One of the guys I play with is musical director for a small church that rents space from another church and caters to a very specific group. The church is new and they meet monthly right now. He's recruited me into the music part, which is fine, not the first time I've ended up a ringer in a church situation, but the first time not singing with the choir that way.

My question for those who play these kinds of gigs as fill-in players is whether any of you are getting paid and, if so, what's the general rate? He's paying barely enough to make it worth setup time but I do enjoy playing with him, and it's a church, so I'm not really complaining, but I'm also not a church member. So I'm wondering if there's a shot at better pay from this down the road, or even a shot at additional paying gigs like this. Any thoughts are appreciated, but on-topic thoughts are the most welcome .

I have subbed for church gigs a couple of times as a favor to a friend, or for special services like Easter where the church pulls out all the stops and hires a bunch of musicians. Got paid union scale for rehearsals and regular services...usually x1.5 or double for Easter. During the service, musicians typically stayed in a green room except when they were performing.

IMHO, the gig involves very little musical satisfaction and has too much waiting around doing nothing. I could see playing for free or a low rate if you are a regular church goer. I am not, so I need to be well compensated. Union scale is not enough.

 

[scubaduba]

I've played bass for my church for 22 years now and played violin for 8 years prior to that. Sometimes play both in one service. Never received a dime and that is just fine.

 

[LBS-bass]

Just an update on this. We played this gig again yesterday. BL has not been able to recruit additional players he wants for gas money and suggested to me, on his own, that he needs to have a meeting with the pastor to discuss developing a music budget. The amount of work this is going to involve on a long-term basis is fairly significant; neither one of us knows a lot of religious music that would appeal to this group and we're going to need to select music for both of our voices and do a few rehearsals a month, at least while we're building a repertoire. The good news is that none of the music is very complicated and we're both fast learners.

I think that if we do this work and make it good we'll have other opportunities to play in the broader Christian community. He's thinking along the same lines. So I'm going to commit to the gig, regardless. I think that it could work out well for a variety of reasons. Money's never at the top of my list of reasons to play but it is always nice to be paid.

 

[dan1952]

Our small church has a small worship team, consisting of the worship leader, who is a great singer who has done session work for many national acts. He is a good keyboard player, his dad is the pastor, and his son plays guitar when he's home from college. We have a man who plays piano very well, especially on hymns. There is a really good drummer with whom I've played off and on since we were in our late teens, who still plays out and does DJ gigs as his main income, and me on bass. This is the only worship band I've ever worked with, and I really enjoy it! I'm sure the leader gets paid, but money has never been brought up for the rest of us. When we've played at other churches, we split the free will offering equally. I play out with my own jazz trio occasionally, for money, and for some benefit shows. I consider my work with our worship band an in-kind tithe, if you will. I don't know if that is liturgically correct, but that's how it is. I normally won't leave the house for a sideman gig for less than $100.00, or for a leader gig for less than $200.00. I love the band, I love the music, and I love the other players, and would actually turn down any payment for playing in our home church. Out of town travel, hotels, gas, etc. justify being paid otherwise. We all take great pride in our performances, and my wife and I are active members in this church (I was raised Catholic, but having been divorced twice was no longer welcomed in the Catholic Church - another story, but...). No other real point.

 

[the slug]

I have played on Worship teams for 25+ years. Never got a dime. Thought never even really crossed my mind. The one mega church I was a member of and played at, the worship pastor was a paid position but the other 50 or so musicians were all volunteer. All professional level musicians but all volunteer. For me personally, I worship better when I'm playing, so it is a privilege just to play. All that said, they wanna pay me, who am I to say no.

 

[IamGroot]

I didnt like the message at the mega church. Paid well, learned a lot. Will never do it again.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Can be anything from volunteers to as well paying as any other sub gig.

 

[Drgonzonm]

I attend church regularly and have played music(played is subjective). Some services like funerals and weddings ususaly pay, regular services no, that said, I attended a church in the NE area where the organist was paid 70,000 a year.

I understand many churches use the music to draw in members, I would expect to get paid.

 

[Jhengsman]

I attend church regularly and have played music(played is subjective). Some services like funerals and weddings ususaly pay, regular services no, that said, I attended a church in the NE area where the organist was paid 70,000 a year.

I understand many churches use the music to draw in members, I would expect to get paid.

Organist are in high demand due to their scarcity and that some churches by doctrine give special status to the organ over other instruments.
For us the playing of trap drums, guitars and bass in churches got its kick start because many a local church could never afford an organ, much less its musician, and thus allowed what was known as a folk or pop musicians instrument in their meetings.

 

[ElectroVibe]

The whole motivation for the church pastor is to be a "fisher of men" which means that he doesn't have to do manual labor. He will earn his living from other people who work. And that would include the worship team as well, if he can manage to. Since most musicians like to play for fun anyway, it can be easy sometimes. He might even convince you that your tithe to his church should be greater than what he pays you, if he pays you anything.

 

[Drgonzonm]

The whole motivation for the church pastor is to be a "fisher of men" which means that he doesn't have to do manual labor. He will earn his living from other people who work. And that would include the worship team as well, if he can manage to. Since most musicians like to play for fun anyway, it can be easy sometimes. He might even convince you that your tithe to his church should be greater than what he pays you, if he pays you anything.

Imo, if the pastor gets paid, then there is a good argument that musicians should get paid.
In one part of the country, base pay for a priest was$380/mo. Plus $10 additional for each year that the priest had been ordained. Add to this a food allowance, a housing allowance and a vehicle allowance.
For order priests, many orders tax their members 50% to support retired and disabled members. All said, if the pastor suggests my pay is part of. My tithing, that church, is welcome to my two dallor a week pay. The church I attend preach, TTT, time treasure and talent. To many churches, volunteers are hard to come by. I wish I could play well enough that others say I am talented. For many money is. The easy part. I had a doctor say he would be willing to pay me to cover his required volunteer hours. I covered for the doctor, with the idea he would give more to a couple special projects.
It's a complicated subject. I have my eyes open.