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Questions about live DI?

#23
derrico1 said:
Yeah, sometimes that's it. At the local club level, though, it's just as likely that the venue's FOH "engineer" has one fixed way of dealing with KICK DRUM and bass​ that doesn't have much to do with the sound the bassist du jour is going for.

If the soundman talks to you about your preferences or listens to your rig before deciding how to deal with it, those are good signs.
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Well said - people who insist that pre-EQ send is the ONLY way are trying to pidgeonhole you into settling for one *generic* bass sound, and never straying from that for the entire gig - regardless of what YOUR artistic vision of the songs may be... Most of them here are soundmen who happen to be parttime bass players - if you pay attention, their bias becomes apparant... It's true that Bongolation is quite knowledgeable, but he's also old, and out of touch with current rock music...


- georgestrings
 
#25
georgestrings said:
This - or, be in a band successful enough to have the pull to have things done the way you want/need them to be done, instead of accepting things just to make someone else's job easier...


- georgestrings
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I spent a few years running the board from the stage and using various in house sound guys when necessary. I was never totally satisfied with the results. Some engineers we had impressed me more than others and anyone who thinks they can do a great job mixing from the stage is wrong, period. A guy we used for a show once on a recommendation from a friend happened to really dig my band so I just kept the dude. He is an equal member of the band and is as important as any one of us. He is free to work for any band that he wants to as long as my band comes first in the event of a scheduling conflict.

This is probably the best move I ever made with regards to this band. ;)
 
#27
georgestrings said:
Well said - people who insist that pre-EQ send is the ONLY way are trying to pidgeonhole you into settling for one *generic* bass sound, and never straying from that for the entire gig - regardless of what YOUR artistic vision of the songs may be... Most of them here are soundmen who happen to be parttime bass players - if you pay attention, their bias becomes apparant... It's true that Bongolation is quite knowledgeable, but he's also old, and out of touch with current rock music...


- georgestrings
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? Did you mean Bongomania? I don't think that's fair criticism. Bongo's answer to the question is accurate in my experience. We're not saying if it's good or bad, just pointing out gigging realities (what the "best" approach is really is another discussion).
 
#28
- they won't try and tell you how to play your bass - so don't try and tell them how to work a desk.
- chances are they'll have to deal with more bad bass players than you will bad engineers.

...so belt up and let everyone do their job.
 
#29
knumbskull said:
- they won't try and tell you how to play your bass - so don't try and tell them how to work a desk.
- chances are they'll have to deal with more bad bass players than you will bad engineers.

...so belt up and let everyone do their job.
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In my humble opinion, when "everyone is doing their job" there is communication and cooperation. Not just "This is how it is...." from either party! ;)
 
#31
scotch said:
? Did you mean Bongomania? I don't think that's fair criticism. Bongo's answer to the question is accurate in my experience. We're not saying if it's good or bad, just pointing out gigging realities (what the "best" approach is really is another discussion).
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Thanks--I tried to make it clear that I was not making any value judgment on the method, but I guess George didn't catch that.

It's also the case, unfortunately, that people regularly mix up posts by me and bongolation, which is kind of a big deal because I often do not agree with his views. :) Sorry other bongo, no offense meant. But I am tempted to change my username just because of that recurring mixup.
 
#32
Floyd Eye said:
Get your own sound guy. Pay him as an equal member of the band. That's the only way to roll as far as I'm concerned.
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Amen. The times when I was the sound man for a band, that was the relationship. They didn't tell me how to mix and I didn't tell them how to play, but we critiqued one another and we shared the same vision.

In one of those bands I sometimes sang backup from the board. I even stood up and sang lead occasionally. The monitors were great! :D
 
#33
bongomania said:
They are ONLY getting the sound of your bass, and NOT any part of the amp. They do this because (a) they know how to get the sound they want through the PA using just the clean signal from your bass;
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i still say thats just WRONG. if they want to hear the bassist they hear in their head let them get on stage. do guitarists submit and just let the sound guy make them sound how ever they want. NO!

why should bassists sacrifice their sound for a sound guy who probably doesnt even care if theres bass in the mix? they get DI, out of amp. with my tone. period.
 
#34
I guess I have been lucky is respect to working with sound engineers. I always take the time to talk to them and work for the best of the mix. Very seldom have I had issues when requesting an additional line for effects if I'm using them. I will always use their di and if possible run a second after my effects. I don't like to mic as my tone on stage is to cut the mix so I can hear and keep the volume down. Most engineers appreciate this and it goes a long way being professional. These guys know what they are doing and I trust them to get their mix out front without interference from me. I am one part of a band and understand its not all about the bass. It's about the totality of the bands sound. Most guys I have worked with i respect to the point they know their job and will get the mix out front the room needs. And most of the time a little respect will go a long way. When I make it a point to let them know I'm interested in the best sound for the entire band but have some unique sounds I need for certain passages or coloring, most will treat me with the same respect I am giving them. And I will always compliment an engineer on a good or great mix as well. You meet the same people after a while and a little goes a long way with a reputation that you will work with other professionals. Just my .02 here.
 
#35
tekdiver500ft said:
As usual, Bongo is absolutely correct. It has nothing to do with being lazy or a control freak. It's about being able to get a great sound for YOU, the artist. For some reason, bass players seem not to understand sound, so they want to send some garbage signal to FOH, then complain when the sound is muddy. Do what the sound man wants, he knows the gear (and usually the venue, too), and has the necessary tools to ensure that your sound is great.
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that whole statement is based on the assumption bass players dont know what good tone is, or how to work their gear. if you dont know both of those, you shouldnt be on stage yet.
 
#39
You can either gripe about it or do something to fix it. Go get an outboard DI/preamp and learn to use it to get the sound you are using. That's the simplest solution. Let the amp just be a monitor. Asking for someone to mic your amp is a losing proposition half the time IME.

PS: Someone mentioned the amp onstage being the problem. If you suspect that might be the issue, try sidefilling it. I do that every chance I get, although I do it as it lets me set my amp quieter are still hear myself from further away. Yes I know that bass spreads out in every direction, but this does help.
 
#40
ggunn said:
Amen. The times when I was the sound man for a band, that was the relationship. They didn't tell me how to mix and I didn't tell them how to play, but we critiqued one another and we shared the same vision.

In one of those bands I sometimes sang backup from the board. I even stood up and sang lead occasionally. The monitors were great! :D
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Exactly. The extent of me telling Steve how to mix is me explaining to him what I want soundwise. I recently switched rigs and we had to sort of figure it out again from scratch, but generally speaking, he knows exactly what I am going for from my rig. He also is totally familiar with our songs and knows exactly when and where to put what effects, when to raise whoever's mic level or whatever. It's extremely cool to not have to have endless discussions about my neurotic tendencies with regards to sound. He already understands and there is no need to drone on and on about minutia. We played a show last night where the venue had an installed system. All we brought was our monitor rack and monitors. Steve had us dialed in and ready to go in less than 10 minutes. That is priceless as far as I'm concerned.
 

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