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Questions about Metronome

#41
Whousedtoplay said:
I would like to put your words under the microscope.

You used the word, feel, to talk about timing issues with the drummer.

What would be the reason for you to say that the drummer is slowing down?

Your sense of timing?

If so, based on what?

Based on some kind of "metronomic timing"? Coming from where?
(Are you acting like a metronome/click?
But you are against the metronome.)

Based on your "we-are-only-humans" (emotionally fluctuating) timing?

What if you are wrong about your timing?

What if your drummer thinks that you are speeding up?

Who is right?

From your words, "I have also never used a metronome for practicing", but, again from your words,
you are imposing your timing on the drummer/on the whole band.

If your drummer/or any drummer you play with
is constantly practicing with the metronome/click/timing device, can the drummer develop "close to perfect" - metronomic - timing?

Is it good or bad thing in your opinion?

You said, "Keeping time is up to myself and the drummer", but only you have the right to slow down/speed up your drummer.

Next.

I sense some confusion about "being able to play with a click".
Somebody at TB mentioned Steve Gadd's expression,
"The most important thing is to meet at Beat1."
I truly believe that his expression is more or less related to JAZZ MUSIC/JAZZ DRUMMING. (Maybe we could include some punk music also.)

I am more interested what's happening within just one bar(or within the rhythmic patter).
How are those rhythmic layers/rhythmic instrument's lines/notes interacting within just one bar? (or within the rhythmic pattern).
Is that one bar/rhythmic pattern "grooving"?
What happens rhythmically at the first/second/etc... cadence?
And so on....

From my personal experience, a timing device is very helpful and provides very good answers to my questions.
Click to expand...

I can tell if a drummer is speeding up, or slowing down a song due to my internal clock. There is tolerance with this though. Speeding up, or slowing down a little is fine, but there's a point where an intervention must take place if it goes too far in either direction. When I play behind, or ahead of the beat to get the drummer back to a stable tempo, no one knows I'm doing that (not even the drummer!). It'a very subtle in that I first pull or push the drummer into not continuing to speed up, or slow down (stabilize), and then I slowly but surely bring them back to the tempo we atarted at. I have yet to have anyone in a band I've played with complain about my method. Why? Because they don't know I'm doing it.
 
#45
Whousedtoplay said:
Should I interpret your answer as,
"I have not made up my mind yet on using Metronomes"?

As always, my pleasure to converse with a very knowledgeable musician/bass player.
Click to expand...

I personally do not use, and never have needed a metronome, so I have made up my mind for myself. It's up to others as far as whether they use one or not. I'm not in the camp that says it will damage your playing. Just make sure to not use it as a crutch (always be able to function musically without it).
 
#47
JordyLegend said:
I see not using one as more of a crutch than using one any day.
Click to expand...

Definitely not! At least not for me. I've been playing for 25 years (since age 13) and was able to keep a good beat within a few days of starting to play. That's me, though. I've never had a complaint about my timekeeping in all this time, and managed to play a lot of difficult stuff in music school. I always got an A in music classes (other than piano, but I hate playing piano which another story), so not using a metronome was never a crutch for me. To each his/her own.
 
#48
Lownote38 said:
managed to play a lot of difficult stuff in music school. I always got an A in music classes (other than piano, but I hate playing piano which another story), so not using a metronome was never a crutch for me.
Click to expand...

Music classes or music school does not count.
Please don't ask me to tell my memories about timing issues in music schools, colleges, conservatories, etc...

P.S. The Berklee Bass Department is an exception!
The Berklee Bass Department is an exception!
The Berklee Bass Department is an exception!....
 
#49
Whousedtoplay said:
Music classes or music school does not count.
Please don't ask me to tell my memories about timing issues in music schools, colleges, conservatories, etc...

P.S. The Berklee Bass Department is an exception!
The Berklee Bass Department is an exception!
The Berklee Bass Department is an exception!....
Click to expand...

Why doesn't Music School count? I went to a 4 year accredited university and received a Bachelor's of Commercial Music with a performance emphasis. My instrument was bass. Not one professor there suggested that I should try using a metronome.
Before that, I had been playing gigs for money since the age of 13 and had no lessons at all.
So Berklee is the only exception? What about Miami, or North Texas??? Indiana???
 
#50
Your question:

Lownote38 said:
Why doesn't Music School count?
Click to expand...
Here is the answer to your question:

Lownote38 said:
Not one professor there suggested that I should try using a metronome.
Click to expand...

I truly believe that you are a very knowledgeable musician, but even if the whole world (including the Berklee Bass Department) turns against me about my strong beliefs in using a timing device for practicing/rehearsing, I will still recommend using a metronome/drum machine/software/etc...

Again, it's only my recommendation, not
"Blanket recommendations to always use one" as mambo4 misinterpreted.
 
#51
Yes to metronomes for musical development and no you don't need a fancy one. If the song is in 3 count three clicks. If it's in 15 count out the subdivsions i.e. 4,4,4,3 or measure of 8/measure of seven. One thing I do advocate for bass players and I forget which famous jazz guy I heard this from 25 years ago, is to set the click to 1/2 the speed and to feel the clicks as back beats. It'll take a while to get used to getting started because you brain will REALLY want to count one of the clicks as one but once you get started two things start to happen. One, you get more used to the natural emphasis on 2 and 4 that pervades jazz and rock music and two, you get used to "owning" the down beat for your own self and this is where your internalized sense of time starts to solidify.
 
#53
Whousedtoplay said:
Your question:


Here is the answer to your question:



I truly believe that you are a very knowledgeable musician, but even if the whole world (including the Berklee Bass Department) turns against me about my strong beliefs in using a timing device for practicing/rehearsing, I will still recommend using a metronome/drum machine/software/etc...

Again, it's only my recommendation, not
"Blanket recommendations to always use one" as mambo4 misinterpreted.
Click to expand...

I doubt Berklee will turn against you. I have no problem with people using metronomes. I don't suggest them to students, but I think you feel more strongly about your position on this than I do. I personally don't care if people use metronomes, or not. I don't and never did. Worked for me, but everyone's wired differently.
 
#54
talking about time...

I know Les is using a delay, among other effects. But there is something in American Life, that turns it into a solid timing beast. What is he doing?
I remember Les doing this kind of things (minute 2:22) in other solos/impros, changing slap patterns, and breaking my head for the night.
 

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