quick theory question

[RumbleMan3]

is it possible to play a bassline using notes in your minor scale while you are playing over major chords.
cos i wrote a song, and thought it sound good, it kind of works, and then later i realised the bass was playing minor and guitar and keys playing major of the same chord.
i think i stuffed up idk? it kind of still works though sounds a bit jazzier, up until now i havent actually noticed haha

 

[RumbleMan3]

you all probably think im stupid right?

 

[bholder]

it can work. why, I don't know. early blues is full of this sort of thing.

 

[Slater]

it can work. why, I don't know. early blues is full of this sort of thing.

Yes, Blues scales, with a minor 3rd, are played over major chords all the time.

 

[RumbleMan3]

wow cool thanks so much that really helps!
ive always just gone with my ear and it sounded like it works alright to me so yeah.
if the bassline was written using major chords, the song would sound completley different and IMO not as good.

Also, you can use the 7th note even when the others arnt playing 7th chords right? im pretty sure u can, but just wanna make sure.

 

[jthisdell]

Also, you can use the 7th note even when the others arnt playing 7th chords right? im pretty sure u can, but just wanna make sure.

Absolutely. If you really get into it you will find alot of great songs will have chords that don't belong or notes played over those chords that are not in them. Called borrowed chords or notes.

 

[RumbleMan3]

Wow. it really makes you think how much we use our theory and how relevant and fundamental it is to music, but then there are people out there mixing it up and it still sounds great, if not great, then better!

Cool thanks guys for your help. Im just gonna trust in myself and go with my gut (or in this case, my ear) because that realy is the best judge.

 

[Badwater]

It's a conspiracy theory.

 

[mrcbass]

First rule is: "Does it sound good?" If yes then you figure out which theory rule applies to make it happen. If not then you can use theory to help determine why not. But...

While theory is a great tool for us to use to classify and compartmentalize chord progressions and helpful for soloists, it's not really a tool for writing. It's mostly for analysis so we can intentionally reproduce a concept in another situation. Sure it can help if one is struggling to get past a little writing hurdle, but from my experience, theory has little to do with creation of music - all about the ear.

 

[Ostie]

About theory: first you learn the rules, then you learn when to break them.

 

[BassChuck]

Music theory is simply a report on what has gone on before you and what people (at that time) thought sounded OK. If you want to sound like that (whatever 'that' is) then consider theory to be 'rules', do what they tell you and you'll get that sound.
Music theory is not an absolute thing. If you study music of the 13th century, you'll find the theory is quite different than if you studied music of say, Schoenberg or Phillip Glass; all three have very different sounds (you'll never confuse them). Or, more modern: the music of The Rolling Stones, is very different harmonically than say, Elton John. Rap and Hip Hop have some very defined sounds too.
It's all good, but style is incredibly important, and if you are interested in creating something new, you would be well advised to study as much different music as possible, and start borrowing.

 

[JRA]

you all probably think im stupid right?

Im just gonna trust in myself and go with my gut (or in this case, my ear) because that realy is the best judge.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

you all probably think im stupid right?

No, not at all. No stupid questions here. The guys have given you several of the examples of when this can be done. Old saying, if it sounds good it is good.

The bass line we end up using has a lot to do with it sounding good, for example, if you were to play the root-five scale degrees of a Cm chord for your bass line ---- as the R-5 for both major and minor chords are the same, C and G, a generic R-5 or R-5-8-5 bass line will work over both the major or minor C chord.

Not going any deeper - my point - what you put into your bass line is what you end up hearing.

 

[dreamadream99]

is it possible to play a bassline using notes in your minor scale while you are playing over major chords

Sometimes. You’re going to create a lot of dissonance if you play an Eb over and over again during a C major chord. Same with an Ab. It’s ok as a passing tone, or in a blues/jazz solo, or fill.

 

[IamGroot]

If you play an E chord, the minor scales F# dorian, G# phrygian and C# natural minor will all work since the all share the same notes.

If you play E7, B dorian, C# phrygian and F# natural minor will fit.

Every 7 note major scale has 7 modes : 3 major, 3 minor and one half diminished.

I hope this intrigues you enough to study modes further.

 

[ImaStupidBaby]

You could play the relative minor of the key, which would be the same notes. But I'm guessing that's not what you meant.

I'm definitely not a theory guru but from what I've learned, whether or not what your doing is theoretically "correct" is less important than if what you're doing sounds good.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

If you go out of scale/key for one or two passing notes, no one is going to call you out for using one or two passing notes. Passing notes, aka, out of scale/key notes that lead you somewhere.

Yes major notes over major chords and minor notes over minor chords are safe, but, so are passing notes, i.e. just do not start or stop on those passing notes. Keep them passing, or leading somewhere.

So back to if it sounds good it is good. Go have fun.

The following may help with the 2's and 4's not being seen in many chords. Chord Formulas

Little more.... chord tones, and what you play normally will sound OK. That means the 1-3 or b3- 5, 6, 7 or b7, and 8 chord tones will sound good together. What about the 2 and 4? About the only chords that have a 2 or 4 in there basic make up are the add and sus chords, add 4, sus2 or sus4. How many of those do you see in what you play? So, skip the 2 and 4 notes for now.

Experiment and have fun.

 

[mambo4]

Without knowing the specific chords and the specific bass line
we can only speculate on why it sounds good.

i realised the bass was playing minor and guitar and keys playing major of the same chord.

Chord qualities do not automatically need to match
the quality of the scale of a bass line /melody.

A scale / bass line unfolds over time, chord tones happen all at once.
what notes occur when ? where do individual notes match up?

 

[Cowboy in Latvia]

Music theory is simply a report on what has gone on before you and what people (at that time) thought sounded OK. If you want to sound like that (whatever 'that' is) then consider theory to be 'rules', do what they tell you and you'll get that sound.
Music theory is not an absolute thing. If you study music of the 13th century, you'll find the theory is quite different than if you studied music of say, Schoenberg or Phillip Glass; all three have very different sounds (you'll never confuse them). Or, more modern: the music of The Rolling Stones, is very different harmonically than say, Elton John. Rap and Hip Hop have some very defined sounds too.
It's all good, but style is incredibly important, and if you are interested in creating something new, you would be well advised to study as much different music as possible, and start borrowing.

I agree that theory is not the best basis for a composition but without basic theory knowledge we are just feeling around in the dark. Case in point, I have a student who only wants to use software to create music so that she knows immediately what it sounds like. However, after some basic I IV V I work she is producing better quality compositions without the software. Do we really care about the full harmonic analysis? No. But she is finding it easier to express herself with some background knowledge.

 

[bigtiny]

is it possible to play a bassline using notes in your minor scale while you are playing over major chords.
cos i wrote a song, and thought it sound good, it kind of works, and then later i realised the bass was playing minor and guitar and keys playing major of the same chord.
i think i stuffed up idk? it kind of still works though sounds a bit jazzier, up until now i havent actually noticed haha

Hey, anything is valid if YOU like the way it sounds. I don't think you're going to hear too many examples of this approach, especially in popular music, but whether that's relevant is up to you.....