Double Bass Rabbath method

[PaulCannon]

-Maybe some of the legit orchestra players can comment, but I am just guessing using Rabbath technique a your main approach to the instrument is not going to make you as attractive a candidate for good classical gigs.

Tell that to Ali Yazdanfar, who teaches with Rabbath at Domaine Forget, or any number of Paul Ellison's students who have gone on to play in top tier orchestras. In his studio, we all study Rabbath and use what we can. Even if it isn't your "main" approach to playing, it's still worth the time to learn it.

The problem I have with this discussion is it seems that several people are making fairly strong statements about Rabbath's techniques without actually having studied it at all. Rabbath isn't about just pivoting all the time. That would be stupid. However, he does teach it because it's a valuable skill. And from reading this thread, I would have had the impression that Rabbath consistently plays with flattened fingers, when in fact that just isn't true. The only time he would have you do that is under specific circumstances that warrant it, generally in thumb position.

 

[THE SAW]

I've got all of Rabbath's albums, yes on vinyl. Does anyone know of a collection of his stuff on CD?
Personally, as far as left hand technique goes, I use the 4-finger swirl method myself in a half bent over position.

 

[damonsmith]

Tell that to Ali Yazdanfar, who teaches with Rabbath at Domaine Forget, or any number of Paul Ellison's students who have gone on to play in top tier orchestras. In his studio, we all study Rabbath and use what we can. Even if it isn't your "main" approach to playing, it's still worth the time to learn it.

The problem I have with this discussion is it seems that several people are making fairly strong statements about Rabbath's techniques without actually having studied it at all. Rabbath isn't about just pivoting all the time. That would be stupid. However, he does teach it because it's a valuable skill. And from reading this thread, I would have had the impression that Rabbath consistently plays with flattened fingers, when in fact that just isn't true. The only time he would have you do that is under specific circumstances that warrant it, generally in thumb position.

- That was just a guess. Another guess would be that studying with Paul you get a lot more than Rabbath. I saw Paul give a masterclass and play in San Francisco, he was just amazing. Very solid player. I have Rabbath's books, and I like his approach to the French Bow, I also lay the neck on my shoulder for thumb position.
My position basically is:
A. I do not think Rabbath is a great utilitarian method like Simandl, Nanny or Billie.
B. Any of us who want to get beyond "utilitarian" need to have an understanding of Rabbath and several other major methods.

Anyway, you are lucky to have Ellison as a teacher.

 

[p.nemeth]

Tell that to Ali Yazdanfar, who teaches with Rabbath at Domaine Forget, or any number of Paul Ellison's students who have gone on to play in top tier orchestras. In his studio, we all study Rabbath and use what we can. Even if it isn't your "main" approach to playing, it's still worth the time to learn it.

The problem I have with this discussion is it seems that several people are making fairly strong statements about Rabbath's techniques without actually having studied it at all. Rabbath isn't about just pivoting all the time. That would be stupid. However, he does teach it because it's a valuable skill. And from reading this thread, I would have had the impression that Rabbath consistently plays with flattened fingers, when in fact that just isn't true. The only time he would have you do that is under specific circumstances that warrant it, generally in thumb position.

I unfortunately was brought up on Rabbath's technique when I started to be serious about the bass and didn't use much else during playing. I have a good understanding of it. I had to work from the ground up when I started studying with better teachers to undo the insecurities that Rabbath gave me. But, whatever, everyone has a different idea of what works and I just think that there are much better ways to play the bass.

 

[THE SAW]

P. Nemeth, let me congratulate you on having a pair to speak the truth-Rabbath was "imported" into this country in the 70's by opportunistic persons who will remain nameless with the intention to make a buck off of him, plain and simple. Rabbath himself is a good guy, but his technique was never intended for the average player-ASK HIM YOURSELF LIKE I DID. I travel all over the place and talk with everybody, for years Rabbath could be found IN THE PIT or onstage with the Paris opera-yup, a sideman-and if you could speak a little French to introduce yourself, he'd tell you that his method is for about 1% of the bass population. Teachers do a tremendous dis-service to students to force them to learn his methods, especially beginners.
By the way, what the hell does a "sex change" have to do with Bass playing? Do you guys really drill new holes into your basses? Are you nuts or merely brainwashed? Sorry to be blunt but for God sakes-TELL ME YOU ARE JOKING.

 

[jakeyramone]

speaking of Morton, how many have heard that he is now a professor at Lynn university? Thats awesome because I only live a couple hours away. With Mike hill its hard to choose. .

Dr. Morton is an amazing teacher. He will give you alot of liberty to do your own thing and makes the bass feel like something else. His fingering system is supreme over all others. Dr. Morton was taught Simandl but he's basically forgotten positions. He said to play an E on the g-string and he tried to give a position and said, "That's what, 5th position or something? I don't know..." If you know where the notes are and how each hand position feels then the Morton system is great. I think it would be very good for a solid Simandl player (more solid than I am, I basically started Morton's method after progessing extremely slow on simandl and started the bass 3 years ago) that is looking for an advanced method.

 

[thedbassist]

Thanks, I'll take a lesson from both of them, but its kind of hard to beat mike hill(I've had a lesson with him). I'll see how good and cool of a teacher Morton is.

 

[Johnny L]

Ellison...Rabbath...

Very solid player.

Plus, Paul Ellison drills holes in his basses...even encourages others to drill holes in their basses to accomodate angled endpins...even (dare I say it) told me personally, onstage, in front of an audience, "If you don't like it, just plug it and drill a new hole."

 

[thedbassist]

Thanks, I'll take a lesson from both of them, but its kind of hard to beat mike hill(I've had a lesson with him). I'll see how good and cool of a teacher Morton is.

 

[PaulCannon]

By the way, what the hell does a "sex change" have to do with Bass playing? Do you guys really drill new holes into your basses? Are you nuts or merely brainwashed? Sorry to be blunt but for God sakes-TELL ME YOU ARE JOKING.

Buddy, that was the subject of this thread when it started. The Laborie endpin is a shaft of wood that is directly inserted into a hole drilled behind the original endpin at a 44 degree angle. It was devised around 1997, and today Rabbath is its main advocate. Most of the guys at Rice swear by it, although I have yet to try it for myself. It's become fairly standard recently.

 

[G-force]

I am very pleased with the laborie pin BUT I would reccomend anyone to first try out a bent steel end pin first or even better an egg-pin.

Though I have one I still remeber Jeff Bollbach i writing in his website " don't do anythig that cannot be undone.."

 

[THE SAW]

Paul, thanks for the reply. I am ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHED by the photo. Not only would I not drill an extra hole in my bass, I would pack up and get the heck out of any place where this "operation" were commonplace. I don't know your situation, but DON'T RUIN YOUR BASS by submitting to this barbaric procedure! Who does this to a bass-what if the "repairman" (I won't even call someone who would do this to a bass a luthier) makes a mistake?
Yes, it's true I'm an amateur, the bass is a hobby, I'm not cutting edge and I may even be an occasional a-hole.
BUT! I WOULD NEVER SUGGEST TO ANYONE ESPECIALLY YOUNG STUDENTS TO DESTROY THEIR INSTRUMENTS-especially since YOU MAY NEVER EVEN GET A PLAYING JOB. So there you would be, no job with a mutilated bass.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Rufus Reid recommends it on his instructional DVD - the Evolving Basssist!

 

[Kylebass]

What is wrong with a small hole drilled behind the existing endpin hole? It is much more stable than a bent steel rod and wont strip your screw. You have to drill into the scroll and cut a part of the nut off to put on a C extension. Is this a mutilation? Rabbath's techniques are very helpful in an orchestral setting. Just slow the bow down a little with more rosin, more weight and a lower placement and you have and sound that will work in most orchestral settings. Would you want to sound like Rabbath while playing a Mahler Symphony? I don't think so, but knowing a bunch of alternate fingerings for all of the scales and doing a pivot every once and a while might help.

 

[PaulCannon]

Paul, thanks for the reply. I am ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHED by the photo. Not only would I not drill an extra hole in my bass, I would pack up and get the heck out of any place where this "operation" were commonplace. I don't know your situation, but DON'T RUIN YOUR BASS by submitting to this barbaric procedure! Who does this to a bass-what if the "repairman" (I won't even call someone who would do this to a bass a luthier) makes a mistake?
Yes, it's true I'm an amateur, the bass is a hobby, I'm not cutting edge and I may even be an occasional a-hole.
BUT! I WOULD NEVER SUGGEST TO ANYONE ESPECIALLY YOUNG STUDENTS TO DESTROY THEIR INSTRUMENTS-especially since YOU MAY NEVER EVEN GET A PLAYING JOB. So there you would be, no job with a mutilated bass.

Ellison drilled his Maggini, and I doubt he has any regrets about it. Robertson's Violin Shop, which is one of the most well-respected violin shops in the country, does this procedure all the time. The drill costs something like $35, and a carbon fiber pin runs about $60. People have also been known to make their own pins out of wood for much cheaper.

And a good luthier, on the few occassions they make mistakes, ought to be able to fix them. If something like this will make you a better player, why say no?

 

[billyfalconer]

A variety of things are being smeared around into a blur in this thread. To start, I think the original poster thought that studying Rabbath equalled adding a second endpin hole for the sake of the Laborie endpin. As others have pointed out, you can use other bent endpins, such as the Egg, without damaging your bass. And, you can study Rabbath without using a bent endpin at all.

The most controversial part of Rabbath's technique that I've heard of (and read) is his insistence that you practice parts at full speed, without ever practicing them slowly. If I'm ever going to play Mozart 41 decently, at the speed of some big symphony recordings I've heard, I'll have to get there by slowly building up to the speed. I've seen Edgar M. working with students in master classes, going over parts at speeds that would make an average snail look like a Ferrari. And starting slowly is the only method that will work for me, or any other player I know, besides Rabbath.

 

[jfv]

I suggest we leave THE TROLL to his astonishment
and go enjoy our 'ruined' basses

 

[TomGale]

]Dr. Morton is an amazing teacher. He will give you alot of liberty to do your own thing and makes the bass feel like something else. His fingering system is supreme over all others. Dr. Morton was taught Simandl but he's basically forgotten positions.

Having worked with Mark for about 15 years now, I really agree and add that he is also an amazing player! About the position thing. The name of the position is just an added step in the mental process that will slow you down and is really not needed. Why think "E - 5th position, finger one". How about E - finger one? You can hit it or miss it either way.
I teach it's "corkscrew one". If you thumb is touching the curve in the neck and your first finger is on E. the hand position resembles a corkscrew - easy to remember and feel. I did that also for 4th, 4 1/2, 5th and 6th. Takes all the 'fear' out of flying high.
Tom Gale ASODB.com

 

[damonsmith]

] The name of the position is just an added step in the mental process that will slow you down and is really not needed.

+1. I doubt anyone really thinks about position #s after a certain point.
It also helps you make use of more than one fingering system.
It is best to just know the fingerboard well.

 

[fcleff]

+1. I doubt anyone really thinks about position #s after a certain point.
It also helps you make use of more than one fingering system.
It is best to just know the fingerboard well.

I agree here (I burned the bejeezes out of my fingers tonight so I can't type well). I don't think in positions anymore. But I like the Rabbath method because it really makes you explore the fingerboard more.