Does anyone here use the rabbath method i.e. use a bent endpin or laborie etc.? My new teacher is sold on this and wants me to convert to the rabbath method over the regular method(using the straight endpin). Just wanted to get people's opinions on the subject.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Rabbath method
- Thread starter thedbassist
- Start date
- Jan 24, 2002
- 2,117
- 950
- Disclosures
- NS Design / AER Endorsing Artist
The last issue of ISB's Bass World had an extensive article on the subject.Tritonis said:
I haven't done it myself, but most of the bassists at Rice have had the "sex change." If was more interested in playing standing up, I'd give it a go, but at the moment I'm content to use a stool.
You should definitely try a bass that already has it before you do it to your own, or better yet, borrow an eggpin and try it out on your bass. Also, try playing your bass with the metal endpin removed, so you can hear what it sounds like without the pin dampening the sound. Half the reason to get a Laborie pin, aside from the improved standing position, is that it ostensibly improves the instrument's sound and allows it to vibrate more freely. Lately bassists have been experimenting with replacing the standard carbon fiber pins with carved wood pins, and those seem to be an improvement. Rabbath is using a pernambuco pin these days.
yeah, my teacher has a wood laborie enpin, I tried his and it was definetly nothing like straight one, if you want to find out more about the Rabbath method, you could just buy his art of the bow dvd, just google that.
I'm not interested in the bent endpin thing - but I liked his method book and found this very useful for starting out on DB! 
I really like the angled endpin for soloing, but I still sit for orchestral work, and a good chunk of my practice time. If you get the angled endpin, I recomend you also practice standing up with the regular endpin. Once you can balance the bass comfortably with the regular endpin, it's going to seem incredibly easy with the angled endpin.
I have heard a lot of people have had intonation and other issues from starting with this method. It is certainly worthwhile but it seems like working on one of the other methods first gives you a more solid basis for it.
Remember, Rabbath did Nanny first.
Also, it solves many advanced issues and is very useful for solos, etc. but it seems to lack a lot when it comes to traditional bass functions.
I don't advocate being ignorant of this or any other method, but I do think it is best treated as an "advanced" method and not a begining method.
Remember, Rabbath did Nanny first.
Also, it solves many advanced issues and is very useful for solos, etc. but it seems to lack a lot when it comes to traditional bass functions.
I don't advocate being ignorant of this or any other method, but I do think it is best treated as an "advanced" method and not a begining method.
Besides holding the bass at an angle towards the body (which, hell, even Paul Chambers did!), there's almost nothing controversial about playing Rabbath's way IMO.
It's traditional 1-2-4 fingerings and thumb position everywhere, and the hard part isn't adopting this sort of fingering strategy...the hard part is getting up to Rabbath's level of playing. His etudes and studies are pretty tough (compared to other beginner methods) from the get-go.
It's traditional 1-2-4 fingerings and thumb position everywhere, and the hard part isn't adopting this sort of fingering strategy...the hard part is getting up to Rabbath's level of playing. His etudes and studies are pretty tough (compared to other beginner methods) from the get-go.
P
p.nemeth
Guest
damonsmith said:
I agree. There are serious intonation problems that arise when someone plays every note within Rabbath's positions that require large pivots. Even Rabbath himself has these intonation problems. The reason for this is that with Rabbath's method, one plays notes outside of positions that can be attained both physically and mentally. One of the keys to placing your fingers in the right place on the fingerboard is to think of the position that you're playing, not just the note you have to press down. For example, if someone was to play first position A with the first finger on the G string to a C with the fourth finger in positions, the other fingers will move into place so that you have a reference point from the first finger that will now be on a B-flat. In Rabbath's method, you'll be pivoting the hand without moving your thumb and jumping from first to fourth finger. This way of playing makes you play outside of positions and makes you play note by note. You lose your mental and physical reference points. The only way to play the notes successfully would be to know what Rabbath calls the space between notes. It is, of course, possible to play in tune this way and pivots are useful in many situations, but playing with pivots all the time is not an efficient way of playing the notes in tune. The hand is performing a series of jumps with the hope of landing in the right location. Another reason why people have such a hard time playing in tune using Rabbath's method is that he advocates fingers collapsing. This reduces the chance of playing in tune and can lead to injury.
It seems to me that this way of playing is really suited towards the music that Rabbath plays, which is mostly written by himself or Frank Proto and revolves around a lot of the patterns and "tricks" he does on the bass. His pieces don't normally take advantage of the keys that most orchestral pieces do and center around keys like D or G which his method works best within. When pieces come up that require a more technically secure way of playing problems occur.
I also have a problem with how different Rabbath and his method are from the way that other string instruments play. The double bass should be treated no less than a large cello and its technique should not be so much different. Violinists, violists, and cellists do not play out of position so why should bass players? A mentality that is associated with Rabbath's method is the continual effort to make things easier. The fact that bass players are being like this, essentially in a corner by themselves removed from the other members of the string family, is hampering the development of the instrument. The truth is that there is no easy way to get better at the bass and requires the same effort that the other string instruments put in.
I don't think that Rabbath's way of playing develops a solid technique for beginning bass players. It's best to study one of the more orchestral ways of playing like Simandl or Findeisen that will develop a solid way of playing that will last with a student for a lifetime.
I already know how to play sitting and standing with the traditional method, the Rabbath method seems more attractive because it allows equal access to all strings without having to reposition the bass.
thedbassist said:
- By all means check it out, use it for all the situations it works best in, putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea.
You should also check out Petracchi and what the four finger guys are talking about.
Pivots are great for light and quick solo lines, if you try to use them for walking jazz lines with a big unamplified sound, you might end up hurting youself.
I think we need to be versed in all these concepts in order to be complete musicians.
Let the music dictate the technique.
Rabbath stirs alot of feelings among bassists due in part to all the different schools of bass playing. I think the Laborie endpin is a great way to repositions the bass' center of gravity while standing. I like it and think it's a good alternative for those who stand but I don't personally use it.
I play sitting down and I play German. I play Simandl 1-2-4 system do most things Simandlesque but I have studied Four Finger Technique as well as thumb position above and below the mid-string harmonic. I believe it is just as useful to know these techniques for the rare gems in Orchestra music. You just have to do things differently sometimes and you need to be ready for it.
I don't know alot about Rabbath's bow grip and the way he teaches the French bow. I started standing with a French bow and switched to Sitting and German bow and am very happy with the results. I do know how to play the good old bear claw French bow and can kind of use it still but it isn't my preference.
The overall rule in my opinion is to look at all the methods and all the ideas and come up with your own system that works. I'm still in high school and I personally take my teachers words as guidelines built from much experience. I personally won't adopt a new technique until I have a fair amount of proficiency with it and my teacher's advice. From all the teachers I've had I have always differed a little but I wouldn't say it's dramatic. We all have to ultimately comes up with something that works but they all have to complete the same basic tasks of playing in tune and making the music speak. However you can reach that goal is a good way of doing things.
But a little off the record, I don't advocate flat fingers. I think it leads to flat sounds and laziness.
I play sitting down and I play German. I play Simandl 1-2-4 system do most things Simandlesque but I have studied Four Finger Technique as well as thumb position above and below the mid-string harmonic. I believe it is just as useful to know these techniques for the rare gems in Orchestra music. You just have to do things differently sometimes and you need to be ready for it.
I don't know alot about Rabbath's bow grip and the way he teaches the French bow. I started standing with a French bow and switched to Sitting and German bow and am very happy with the results. I do know how to play the good old bear claw French bow and can kind of use it still but it isn't my preference.
The overall rule in my opinion is to look at all the methods and all the ideas and come up with your own system that works. I'm still in high school and I personally take my teachers words as guidelines built from much experience. I personally won't adopt a new technique until I have a fair amount of proficiency with it and my teacher's advice. From all the teachers I've had I have always differed a little but I wouldn't say it's dramatic. We all have to ultimately comes up with something that works but they all have to complete the same basic tasks of playing in tune and making the music speak. However you can reach that goal is a good way of doing things.
But a little off the record, I don't advocate flat fingers. I think it leads to flat sounds and laziness.
-Maybe some of the legit orchestra players can comment, but I am just guessing using Rabbath technique a your main approach to the instrument is not going to make you as attractive a candidate for good classical gigs.
As someone who was brought up on Rabbath, I have to admit, I find his left hand system to be lacking. His approach to thumb position is less than ideal for many musical situations and isn't condusive to good vibrato. One school of teaching I've really been turned onto is Dr. Morton's Simandl plus. I find with Rabbath, you're basically taught to play everything in one of the six positions and pivot to reach the other notes. It's easy to begin this way, but I think it hampers your abilities in the long run. The Morton system doesn't really use positions per se, and I think is more benificial. I will say that Rabbath's bow arm is absolutley gorgeous, and is the most efficient and versatile way to use the bow IMHO.
So, is it possible to use a bass with a bent or laborie endpin and still use the simandl fingerings? I don't yet have the endpin installed.
I also think it is really important to make a huge distinction between what a master player at the top of their form can do and what is a good method for beginners/younger players.
Guys Like Rabbath, Morton, Bradetich, Roelofson etc., they can do all kinds amazing stuff that you could also learn, given a few decades.
The techniques they employ might not be things you want to rely on in the earlier stages.
Guys Like Rabbath, Morton, Bradetich, Roelofson etc., they can do all kinds amazing stuff that you could also learn, given a few decades.
The techniques they employ might not be things you want to rely on in the earlier stages.
speaking of Morton, how many have heard that he is now a professor at Lynn university? Thats awesome because I only live a couple hours away. With Mike hill its hard to choose. 
.
.
