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Double Bass Rabbath method

#41
i play both jazz and classical and am an owner of a Christian Laborie Bass with the said angled endpin (yes i have another hole in my bass-its not mutilation). i personally do study Rabbaths method but do not use his positionings etc exclusively, it is best to look at many different methods and find a happy medium in which to play your instrument the best.However i do like the angle of the bass and gives a better amount of weight in the arms and less tension,it also gives you better reach of thumb position without bending over massively and doing your back in!!!!Overall i think everyone should at least try it.(the studies are bloody hard though);)
 
#42
p.nemeth said:
I also have a problem with how different Rabbath and his method are from the way that other string instruments play. The double bass should be treated no less than a large cello and its technique should not be so much different. Violinists, violists, and cellists do not play out of position so why should bass players? A mentality that is associated with Rabbath's method is the continual effort to make things easier. The fact that bass players are being like this, essentially in a corner by themselves removed from the other members of the string family, is hampering the development of the instrument. The truth is that there is no easy way to get better at the bass and requires the same effort that the other string instruments put in.

I don't think that Rabbath's way of playing develops a solid technique for beginning bass players. It's best to study one of the more orchestral ways of playing like Simandl or Findeisen that will develop a solid way of playing that will last with a student for a lifetime.
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I think your opinions are valid, but for the most part incorrect. When you state the Rabbath's method is really in far left field from the other stringed instrument's technique, you're misleading people. In fact, much of what Rabbath's technique is all about is a modified cello technique. The angle of the bass is just like holding a cello, and most of the bowing approach is like cello technique.

As for the collapsed fingers, I think what you're saying is somewhat true, but you must remember that using the Laborie endpin allows you to use the weight of your arms more, requiring less physical strength or pressure, thus the collapsed fingers don't inhibit playing as much as they normally would.

Lastly, I do fully agree that one should start off in Simandl before converting. I believe the best technique is a blend of all technical styles.
 
#45
ArmyPunkGuy said:
what method??? wow i guess i have alot to learn lol
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OT

Basically, you know Rabbath has written Three Books about his New Technique (expecially in matter of fingerings, pivoting, crab technique and new bowings). I'm sure because I have got the French mail he posted me. This one will be the Four Books about the new technique. We' re also waiting for his new DVD about the Left Hand.
But there's another News. Maestro has told me that it's possible to write to [email protected] because it seems to have a DVD by MEDIAFILM of one of his concerts directed by Frank Proto "live" in Lilly "Carte blanche avec L'Orchestre Lyrique de Paris". I'm waiting for an answer!

Best regards

Vito Liuzzi
 
#46
DaveAceofBass said:
I think your opinions are valid, but for the most part incorrect. When you state the Rabbath's method is really in far left field from the other stringed instrument's technique, you're misleading people. In fact, much of what Rabbath's technique is all about is a modified cello technique. The angle of the bass is just like holding a cello, and most of the bowing approach is like cello technique.

As for the collapsed fingers, I think what you're saying is somewhat true, but you must remember that using the Laborie endpin allows you to use the weight of your arms more, requiring less physical strength or pressure, thus the collapsed fingers don't inhibit playing as much as they normally would.

Lastly, I do fully agree that one should start off in Simandl before converting. I believe the best technique is a blend of all technical styles.
Click to expand...

I played cello for years before switching to the double bass and I'm very familiar with cello technique and the way that cellists play. It is not anything like Rabbath in regards to the left hand and the right hand. Cellists do not pivot in the way that Rabbath pivots. They have what are called extended fingerings where one finger is physically stretching to hit a note while the others are in position. Otherwise, like violinists and violists, they play in mental and physical positions. Cellists do not use nearly as much wrist as Rabbath does in his bow and don't do any of his anticipation movements for changing the direction of the bow. As for collapsed fingers, I don't see how being able to use more arm weight is an excuse for collapsing fingers, nor do I see any correlation between the two.

I am not trying to mislead anyone with my posts and "incorrect opinions". With other instruments the techniques that work better normally show because there is such a large number of people who play the instrument and many people you can count among the greats so the lesser techniques die out. This is why piano technique is so advanced and why the other string instruments have a longer tradition than bass players do. But what is dangerous for bass players is that there are a relatively smaller number of us. We don't get to enjoy this Darwinian effect on our instruments as quickly as the other string players have. It is important for us then to look to the highest caliber playing there is at the moment and use that as a standard. We shouldn't settle for sounding like Rabbath when we can sound like David Grossman.
 
#47
Just because cellists may not need to move the hand so much to reach a note in back with the index finger doesn't mean there's no connection with Rabbath's pivoting technique. I mean, the thumb stays planted in the same place still, right?

Both cellists and bassists enjoy using the heel for reference in finding the notes such that the thumb remains stationary, and both are also capable to utilize a stationary thumb in other positions to solidify intonation.

I think it's quite cool that Rabbath has given this very practical idea a name and a description such that it can be taught and shared among bassists. I don't think recognizing the thumb as a useful contributor to solid left hand technique is going to die off any time soon as long as we still have thumbs.
 
#49
You know what annoys me?

Those little buttons on the lids for soft drink cups. No one uses them. I've never recieved a drink with one of those little buttons popped, and I've eaten a lot of fast food. Eliminating those little buttons would probably save a lot of production costs, which could be passed on to the consumer. Man those buttons annoy me. A lot.
 
#52
In my opinion, I'm convinced of the fact that Rabbath has given us a new direction to discover. But I don't know if this one is the better way to follow. What do I mean? I teach "Higher simplified technique" by Petracchi, but I also have studied Rabbath's concepts. Well, "simplified" is not a term to tell us: "a stupid technique". It must be used in the opposite sense. A technique to simplify some mistakes with a very logic sense and to develope to the maximum our capacity of thinking to a "doublebass fingerboard" as a "piano fingerboard". Without points of reference we 'll never have a correct "mental plan" and our tuning will be always incostant. Just with three basic positions (chromatic, semichromatic and diatonic ...) Petracchi has solved a lot of problems and all his students (Francesco Siragusa, Giuseppe Ettorre, Riccardo Donati, ALberto Bocini and so on) has got an incredible intonation. Because they have a "mental plan"!
My friend Gary Karr hasn't it: it's only a great "Genius".
Rabbath tries to give us new points of referements, but I think that in some cases they are very unstable, and our intonation suffers. We must study harder to obtain the half of results! I think, as Latins said to us "In medius stat virtus". It means that it's up to you to discover a medium point in our technique and then give a look to other ideas and to criticise them. Not giving the prevalence to only one of those ones. If you study Petracchi and Rabbath main ideas main ideas, in my opinion, you will have a number of possibilities to solve your technical problems (how to finger, the best bowing and so on) in every moment and for every occasion. No other methods give us all such materials.
It's better to play well a doublebass with a bass technique, that play in a poor manner a bass with a cellist technique.

My best regards

Vito Liuzzi
 
#56
It is great that there is still so much diversity in the styles of classical bass players unlike violinists who all sound the same these days. I can only speak for myself when I say that I feel methods are good, but we as individuals keep striving to know exactly how we want to sound (tone/projection/musicality). Every teacher and player can do something that we can not do. I try to keep as open as possible to everyone's teaching. There are certain things that I will not do like drilling a hole in my good bass because I feel that there will eventually be someone who comes up with a better idea continuing the progression from the bent endpin to the eggpin to the carbon fiber "operation" and i'm willing to let others experiment on that.
 
#58
Hello.
I was at masterclass with Mr. Rabbath in Madrid earlier this year and he impressed me a lot. I am coming from tradtional Streicher method, but I am learning now the Rabbath method and I have to say that many technical and musical problems were solved because of this technique. Try it out and you will see if you like it or not.
Best wishes
 
#60
G-force said:
That's awesome...but all I have to say is , WHO ???

I agree with Paul , I'd rather sound like Paul too.
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David Grossman is a member of the New York Philharmonic that joined when he was a third year undergraduate student at Juilliard. In my opinion, he's on the genius level of bass playing. You can listen to samples off of his CDs here: Invalid Link Removed He also teaches at Manhattan School of Music and has a great reputation as a teacher.
 

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