Double Bass Rabbath method

[vitoliuzzi]

Dear Paul,
I've listened to David Grossman's way of playing.
I don't know if he is a genius on the double bass ... it's very difficult to use this "word" for everyone.
If I can express my personal opinion, I prefer Grossman's idea of sound, and not the Rabbath's one. I'm only talking about an "idea of sound". Rabbath is surely one of the most important soloist in the world and pedagogue. New ideas, new concepts, new bowings, new positions of holding a bass and so on. But when I listened to him, I can appreciate his incredible technique with Corellis very low tension and small gauge, but I don't like this "sound". Perhaps I have already express this concept. But I would like he would use "normal" classical strings and play the same things: it will be great!
But with Corellis (I usually listened to him on his Cd recordings, in which the bass sound is equalized to obtain a big sound in the low-middle frequencies ... but it's not natural!) his "sound" is similar to a not so very good "cello" and very far to a good "double bass".
I prefer a "good double bass sound" (also with Solo Tuning), but not a sound, in Italy we usually say, "that is no meat no fish".
For these reason, I like very much Grossman's sound because it's near to a double bass sound.
"The great challange in this new century, XXI, will be to play at the same Rabbath speed and with the same bowings but using strings with normal gauges and tensions" .
However, Rabbath with Karr, Martin and Petracchi and Streicher must to be consider of another planet!!

My best regards

Vito Liuzzi

p.s.OT) Paul, I've listened to Mp3 samples by Grossman, but I think general recording could be better. I know it's an Mp3, but piano sound and double bass sound is probably too dry or arid. It's easy to listen to the mistakes, but it's a strange recording.

 

[bassdblr]

I've been playing upright bass about five years. I started with the Simandl. Then I switched teahers, and we put aside the Simandl, and did work with Rabbath and George Vance books. This past six months though, I started with a new teacher, and he has me on Simindl, book and etudes.

I have to say I have made such good progress in the past six months getting back into Simandl. Someone, whose opinion I respect did not think I was progressing in alignment with the amount of effort I was putting into my practice time and suggested this Simandl based teacher.

I think Rabbath has some great ideas. I do use a bent endpin, even with studying Simandl, but I'm getting the depth and sound I want now. It just was not happening with Rabbath. I was playing thumb position etudes before I realy, truly had a good grounding in the lower registers.

I would suggest one study Simandl first, really get a good grounding, learn some standard repertoire too, get a great sound, and then see what is valuable with Rabbath's studies. I want to study Rabbath again, but not until I have had my fill of Simandl and learning some standard repertoire.

 

[thedbassist]

Have you ever thought that it was teacher and not the method? True, rabbath is not for everyone, but its very easy for many teachers to not stress the fundamentals and basics of the rabbath method and the lower positions. The fit of the teacher is mainly what is most important, which is most likely why you're progressing with your new teacher so well. Just thought I'd add my two cents, Happy bass playing!!

 

[bassdblr]

thedbassist,

Well, there's an interesting question, something I have not thought about much. But, surprisingly, this new teacher is really a good fit. Could be the teacher, could be the material, could also be that I am in a mode of practice, practice, practice, and progression these days too and stuff to practice from the teacher that is more than I could possibly get to and master before each lesson. Maybe I thrive on that challenge. Appeals to my competitive nature. Or, maybe I am so tired of Simandl that I just cannot wait to get through the major part of the stuff and move on to something more interesting, maybe Rabbath again. Probably one of those things one will never know for sure but I think this teacher has me psyched out and knows what I need to work on most. Better go practice now.

 

[akaHank]

I don't think that Rabbath's way of playing develops a solid technique for beginning bass players. It's best to study one of the more orchestral ways of playing like Simandl or Findeisen that will develop a solid way of playing that will last with a student for a lifetime.

With all due, and well deserved, respect to Rabbath p.nemeth's entire post deserves STICKY status, even though I only quoted the conclusion.

thedbassist, there is no definitive double-bass "method". The definitive method is re-invented by each serious student as they work through the db literature. Start by carefully studying p.nemeth's comments. They are spot on.

 

[G-force]

FR talks about using "expanders" instaed of dumbells. who here has any insights on wth he is talking about.

 

[atrombs]

I can understand the logic behind a bent endpin but what I don't understand is why people drill holes in the back of their bass for the eggpin. What if you one day suddenly hate the eggpin and you're stuck with a hole in the bottom of your bass. I actually hear that someone just came out with something that you attatch into the regular endpin slot then put in the eggpin so you don't have to drill a hole in the back of the bass.

 

[PaulCannon]

I can understand the logic behind a bent endpin but what I don't understand is why people drill holes in the back of their bass for the eggpin. What if you one day suddenly hate the eggpin and you're stuck with a hole in the bottom of your bass. I actually hear that someone just came out with something that you attatch into the regular endpin slot then put in the eggpin so you don't have to drill a hole in the back of the bass.

What you describe at the end is what the Eggpin has always been. The shaft which requires a new hole be drilled is the Laborie pin, and it's only been around since the late 90's.

The Laborie pin accomplishes two things the Eggpin can't. First, it relieves the pressure put on the top of the bass from having the normal pin pull against the tail wires. Second, it puts the wood of the bass into direct contact with the ground, which usually allows the instrument to open up and be somewhat more resonant.

If you really want to plug the hole up, you can always take it to a luthier. It's been done before. But, really, the hole is in a location on the bass that isn't exactly an eyesore. Most people don't notice unless you point it out.

 

[koricancowboy]

Have you ever thought that it was teacher and not the method?

+1!! All this talk about one versus the other is a little silly. I think many Rabbath bashers haven't taken a look at the whole thing.

Playing a d major scale in 14 different fingerings can't be bad. Ludwig Streicher's method is also fantastic! Simandl, Bille, Nanny, Cerny, Petracchi, etc... all great and viable. Someone tried to imply because Rabbath studied Nanny it makes the old techniques better. It was Rabbth's interpretation of Nanny that made what he did be. Nanny never talked about the Crab technique or 4 finger technique or pivoting or his notion of bowing etc.

Why would you limit yourself to one technique and call that the best. All of those older techniques are the culmination of one persons experiences and observations on the instrument. Ludwig Streicher said it best, My way of Playing the Double Bass. Notice he did not say "THE" way but "MY" way.

To blame a method for shortcomings is ludicrous. Shortcomings in playing come from the player not th method. Lack of foundational skills come from the teacher not the method.

My teacher attacks problems with as many different techniques as he can. He draws from Bass lit, cello lit, violin lit, jazz lit, classical lit and whatever else works. He also encourages me to come to my own conclusions. He has a job with the Lyric Opera so I am not about to argue with his logic.

In the end Rabbath plays better than probably most of us so it would behoove us to listen to what he has to say. Also the fact it is the source of this controversy amongst bassists is a testament to its efficacy. The mere fact that enough players have checked it to argue about it out is proof enough of it's validity.

In the end I would advise anyone to check out every possible technique out there. None of them will do you harm if you take the time to understand them. Any of the methods would work as long as they were presented in a mindful manner with emphasis on proper technique. In addition, Zimmerman's Bowing book and Hal Robinson's Stroking also work.

Honestly though, a basic scale fingering would be the first point of reference. It's amazing how many players don't have that. But that's just what I did. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
OZ