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Double Bass Radial StageBug SB-4 as a preamp

bassfiddlesteve

bassfiddlesteve

Your first second choice™
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Dec 3, 2003
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#1
I recently picked up a [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] which is an active direct box with features designed for piezo pickups such as a 5 Meg Ohm input impedance, phase switch and high pass filter. Since it runs on phantom power, I've been using it with my MarkAcoustic AC-101 which has a combo jack with 48 volt phantom power on the second channel. Though the amp has a 1 Meg Ohm input impedance that works well with piezo pickups, the lower impedance of the StageBug seems to open up the sound a bit, and the hi pass filter and phase switch come in handy too. I've used my Fishman Pro-EQ Platinum in this manner before, but I've noticed that with the Fishman I seem to lose some gain, even with the and Volume and Input Gain controls adjusted. Obviously the StageBug works well as a DI box, but with an amp that offers phantom power like mine it works well as a preamp too.

- Steve
 
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#2
I like Radial stuff a whole lot. It's always well designed and extremely well built. I've looked at this DI with some interest but haven't gotten around to enquiring about the through signal. I wonder if it does as I suspect and just dump the high impedance signal from the pickup straight through the 1/4" throughput or does it buffer it? Seems to me having it buffer the pickup going to the amp would make some sense....at least make it switchable? I know it's not an issue the way you're using it but if you were using it in a more traditional manner would you still need another buffering stage?
 
#3
Jeff Bonny said:
I wonder if it does as I suspect and just dump the high impedance signal from the pickup straight through the 1/4" throughput or does it buffer it? Seems to me having it buffer the pickup going to the amp would make some sense....at least make it switchable? I know it's not an issue the way you're using it but if you were using it in a more traditional manner would you still need another buffering stage?
Click to expand...

According to the packaging the 1/4" AUX output is buffered.

- Steve
 
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#6
I have the option of buying Behringer ADI-21 Acoustic Preamp/DI or Radial StageBug SB-4 to go straight into the PA from my piezo DB pickup, their input impedences are about the same (~5M Ohm), both are optimized for piezos.

StageBug has set HPF (150 Hz I think) and phase switch,
Behringer has 3 band eq with sweepable mid.

I know Behringer is of lower quality and probably more noisy, but I'm ok with that. Behringer is for less than half of the StageBug's price.

Which one would you pick?

Would getting the Behringer for less money and turning down the bass on the eq as a sort of HPF work (for feedback resistance), or is that just nonsense? Using the StageBug HPF I am afraid that too much bass will be lost, although I won't have to fiddle with it on stage like I do with eqs.
 
#7
That Behringer looks like a total POS and rolling off the bass in lieu of an HPF will very likely not give you useable results. Any DI that works well for under $200 is a score and the Radial SB-4 for $70 is probably waaaay more bang for your buck...in a DI that is.

If you're regularly going into a PA with no amplifier a good preamp like a Raven Labs PMB, D-TAR Solstice, Headway EBD2 or any number of others is a much more flexible way to go and has good resale value. OK, OK so $300-$500 is a whole lot more money than you want to throw at this right now. An incredibly versatile low budget alternative is the $99 [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] mixer.
  • It's small.
  • It's readily available.
  • The preamps in it sound really good.
  • It has 1MΩ impedance instrument inputs that will mix two pickups of any sort, a pickup and a mic, two mics or two different instruments (potentially three or even four but the third stereo strip has no EQ). Yes the input impedance could be higher for piezos (piezo specific preamps are often around 4-5MΩ) but 1MΩ is acceptable and with 40dB of gain on the two mono strips it's not going to be a real issue. The inputs are switchable to line level too so you can come in with keyboards, playback devices, a DI or mic preamp.
  • It has an HPF that rolls off lows @ 100Hz -18dB per octave vs the SB-4 that rolls off @ 150Hz -6dB per octave. 100Hz is a better point to cut at but then the -6dB on the SB-4 isn't that drastic and isn't exactly going to gut your sound....meh, just plan for an fdeck HPF Pre Series 3 sooner than later and permanently solve the HPF issue.
  • The outputs will send balanced or unbalanced signals and it has enough gain to drive a power amp if you want to use it as the only preamp in a stage monitor rig. It will also work as a preamp in front of a bass amp.
  • It has 48v phantom power for when you want to use a condenser mic.
  • The tape input is useful at home for running drum loops to practice with or even to play music between sets on gigs where you're running directly into powered speakers.
Last year when I thought I'd lost my little Mackie/Tapco mixer I looked at the 402VLZ4 carefully and talking bang for buck not much in that price range is close. It's a a little more than the Radial but it's a piece of gear that you could easily have around for years and is likely to pay for itself many times over.
/derail
 
#8
Thanks for the detailed answer, the 402VLZ4 looks nice. I currently have a Boss Bass Eq pedal as my preamp with 1MΩ input impedence, and I always wonder if I am missing something compared to the ~5MΩ impedence inputs.
 
#9
That little Mackie is something you might be able to rent to try it out....or just buy and keep the box nice and return it. Like I said it has a ton of gain that can really effect tone and that seems to be a big difference between it and the Boss stomp box which I've also used. I've found there's often a sweet spot on the input gain on the Mackie where you start to push the preamp and it fattens the low mids in a very pleasing way. It may or may not give you what you want but on a slim budget it's a real good bet. It's for good reason Mackie has sold so many inexpensive mixers for so many years.
 
#10
Jeff since you mentioned you have used the Boss bass eq pedal, did you ever try using it with a simple active or passive di box into the PA? It has 50Hz as the lowest frequency, would cutting that have any benefit for feedback resistance? I find that with my bass 120Hz seems to be dominant frequency on that eq, I sometimes cut that, not sure if it really helps.
 
#11
Just get an Fdeck. If you need XLR out you can find a cheap Passive DI for 20 bucks. The whirlwind stageblox is a cheap and tiny DI.

I've done a bunch of A/B tests in loud bars with crappy PAs. Real world situation. The Fdeck II sounds better than the III for upright.

Fdeck into a radial stagebug sounds very good. Fdeck into a cheap passive DI sounds almost as good. It would be hard to tell the difference unless you did an AB Test.
 
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#12
A little late to the party, but I just wanted to share my experience using the SB-4 for the 1st time at last night's gig.
(I bought it here used a few months back from the OP- thanks again, Steve).

Our band is usually fully acoustic but we knew we'd need some P.A. assist on this one- a big, open room of tile and glass and about 75 chatty, boozy patrons. 2 guitars, banjo, fiddle, mando, doghouse, and vocals. I prefer a 'less-is-more' set up when possible so I left the amp at home.

I'd been itching to see what the 'Bug was capable of and it didn't disappoint. I used a ply bass with steel strings and a Hurley one-shot pickup on the bass side bridge wing. I brought a couple of my other preamps with me for failsafe, but really wanted to see how this D.I. worked all by itself.

We had a small P.A. with no subs so I decided to engage the hpf button to cut some woof. The unit worked well, smoothing out the quack/scratchy, typical piezo honk nicely for a far more usable sound. It's compact, well-built, and has the basic feature set I need for no-frills connection to a sound system. Recommended piece of kit.
 
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#14
Francois Blais said:
The cut frequency is not really optimized for bass though; 150Hz at -6dB/octave.
That's somewhat high.
But when playing in a situation where the sound is boomy, this may be really helpful.
Click to expand...

That's a good point, Francois- thanks. I wasn't aware of the actual frequency range being cut. I just know it sounded better than expected to me as
I'm just a (rather primitive, admittedly) player, not an engineer.
 
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#18
I have used the Radial Stagebug SB4 for over a year. I used to send my Schatten pickup to a Baggs ParaAcoustic DI and into the PA. But with the Stagebug the signal is so clean and strong I go right into the PA. Use the pre-amp in the Board. The sound tech is going to tweak the signal no matter what you use so just let them know how you like your bass to sound. It has worked for me every time. And it fits into your pocket...all you have to carry on stage with your bass is your cable from the pickup to the Stagebug.:)
 
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