Rake or strict alternation?

[Suckbird]

i actually almost strictly did alternations before i began to rake, really only raking 1 string down when i neede to...
but now i see it all has its place....
really fast like 16th or 32nd note alternation for me across all 4 strings is tough then i used a rake across all 4 and it was much easier to stay clean with a nice tone, but a bit difficult to nail them on beat everytime and i occasionally fell behind...
but it all has its place i think... just practice, practice, practice

ehh, so who the hells plays "really fast" 32notes across all 4strings?
And how the hell do you know if you play clean when you play that fast?

 

[nickg1823]

I used to rake more often, but then decided to try strict alternation. After i worked at it and became comfortable, I found I have much more control and my playing has done nothing but get better.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I sometimes alternate but I usually rake because it works much better for my style and sound.

 

[JimmyM]

That thunk sound? That's the sound of me beating my head against the wall.

So regardless of all the people in here telling some of you how much they've improved by ditching the raking and doing SA, regardless of bass greats like Dave LaRue saying that raking does nothing for improving your skills as a bassist, you're going to sit here and keep saying raking is better because you saw a film of Jamerson doing it? Fine. No skin off my nose. You all obviously know much more than Dave.

 

[mrWr0ng]

Why does it have to be either or?

When the situation calls for it, I rake. When it would be more suitable to alternate, I do so.

The good bass player learns how to play in every way he can so that he can pick and choose for the best sound possible.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

That thunk sound? That's the sound of me beating my head against the wall.

So regardless of all the people in here telling some of you how much they've improved by ditching the raking and doing SA, regardless of bass greats like Dave LaRue saying that raking does nothing for improving your skills as a bassist, you're going to sit here and keep saying raking is better because you saw a film of Jamerson doing it? Fine. No skin off my nose. You all obviously know much more than Dave.

No need to get upset about it. There isn't a "right" way about it...and people don't have to assume that because Dave LaRue advises against it that it's wrong. There are other pros who endorse it (Brunel), and I've seen Manring play passages with as much speed and accuracy while raking as anyone here could do with SA. It doesn't mean anything- what you choose won't make it wrong. It'll take more work to get your raking up to that kind of accuracy, but if people want to, there's nothing wrong with it. It's like playing an unlined fretless- you'll have to put in extra work for the same outcome, but if it's a challenge you want for yourself, then go for it. I used to rake all the time. Since I started using a freestroke fingerpicking method, I can't do it anymore, so I'm always alternating. No biggie.

 

[OrionManMatt]

I have no idea what raking is. None.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I have no idea what raking is. None.

Raking is what it's called when you descend strings by having the last finger that plucked the higher string go through and pluck the string below. For example, if you plucked a C on the G string with your index finger and the next note you need to pluck was an E on the D string, you'd let your index finger continue through the pluck on the G string and pluck the D string as well. Since most bassists use reststrokes (meaning after each finger pluck, the finger comes to rest on the string below the one just plucked, which aids in muting), it's often more economical to rake notes when descending. Strict alteration means that you always alternate between the fingers when ascending or descending...the pattern of your plucking fingers no matter what the string is 1-2-1-2-1-2...etc. with some exceptions such asl playing octaves.

 

[JimmyM]

Thunk Thunk Thunk Thunk Thunk...

Bryan, you say how raking is a fine technique endorsed by pros like Bunny Brunel and Michael Manring, and then you say how you've ditched raking in favor of alternating.

Thunk.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Thunk Thunk Thunk Thunk Thunk...

Bryan, thank you for making my point for me. You say how raking is a fine technique endorsed by pros like Bunny Brunel and Michael Manring, and then you say how you've ditched raking in favor of alternating because it's made you a better player.

Thunk.

You must have thunked your head against the wall one too many times, because it's impaired your ability to read. I didn't say that at all in my post. I said with the new fingerpicking method I use, I can't rake because it's all freestrokes. I have to use SA all the time now. I'd still rake a lot of the time if I could, but the picking technique doesn't put your hand in a position where you can do so.

I'm not sure how you translated that due to my new picking method I can't rake anymore into that I "ditched raking in favor of alternating because it's made you a better player.", but I'd sure return that decoder ring if I were you.

 

[JimmyM]

Why would you change to a different style if it didn't make you a better player?

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Why would you change to a different style if it didn't make you a better player?

I switched to a four-finger guitar-like freestroke technique to improve efficiency. So I could play quicker without moving my fingers as fast, and so I could play without getting tired for twice as long. It also aided in ascending strings because I began using my thumb. Not being able to rake was actually the biggest drawback to switching styles, but since mainting stamina and ascending strings were always more difficult to me than descending strings (either SA or raking), its benefits outweigh its flaws.

 

[JimmyM]

And that doesn't make you play better?

Thunk.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

And that doesn't make you play better?

Thunk.

Playing all SA with no raking? No, not in the least. It gives less options when raking would be optimal.

Thump

 

[d8g3jdh]

This is all very silly

I play classic rock, with a few types of metal thrown in.

One song I know is money by pink floyd, another is killers by iron maiden.

Try SA on money, it would be ridiculous and stupid, and would probly be a hell of alot harder.

I have tried to play killers with raking, but i just cant. Not only does it mess with my timing, it just doesnt sound right.

Long story short: SA or rake, depending on the situation. To each his own

Peace my brothers

 

[JimmyM]

In another thread, you say you've been playing 5 months. Sorry, but you really have no qualifications to make a statement like that. Money is played with a pick, so SA or raking doesn't even come into consideration. BTW, I have played Money using my fingers and SA, and it sounded great.

 

[d8g3jdh]

Sigh...yes i've been playing for five months, (nearing 6, hooray) and i wouldnt have posted if i didnt think i have some sort of basis to give my opinion from. Do you disagree that raking and SA both have their own place, and that it is a good idea to be comfortable with both, but the best approach is whatever feels and sounds good in your ear? I find that a pretty hard statement to disagree with.

While it is true that experience is usually in proportion to skill, such is not always the case. A friend of mine who has been playing for 2 years has poor timing, and from what i have seen i can play better than him.

Why is it that when i end a post with "peace my brothers" the next post is one that calls me wrong, or not in the position to post. I always thought the point of democracy and freedom of speech was that anyone, no matter how inexperienced or wrong has a right to voice their opinion as long as it doesnt offend anyone else, and thats what i did. If i offended you, nevermind, but i dont think what i said was very offensive

Money is played with a pick, interesting...

If this disagreement leads to the closing of this thread, then i apologize in advance.

PEACE my brothers, PEACE.

 

[JimmyM]

I think it's great that you're playing, and I think it's great that you're doing so well with it, but you are still very much in the learning stage. And nothing personal, but I don't think anyone who has only been playing 5 months is qualified to make judgments about the merits of one technique over the other because you simply haven't had the experience.

There is a reason why I favor SA over raking. I'm not dead set against raking, and if you held a gun to my head, I would even admit that I will rake occasionally, but it's a rare occasion because I discovered that a lot of the sloppiness in my playing was due to raking. And I also feel that a lot of the people in this thread who say it's good to rake haven't really gotten their SA chops together, otherwise they would see the logic behind it. But if you go back and read this thread from the top, you will see not only explanations why I think SA is the way to go, you will also read testimonials from former rakers who forced themselves to play strictly SA and discovered how much it cured their sloppiness. Short version...raking is a rather imperfect way to play that makes you feel like you're saving energy and using good economy of motion while the exact opposite is often true.

And no, you didn't offend me. Sorry if I offended you, but 5 months is a very short time in the grand scheme of things. Freedom of speech goes both ways, you know? My freedom of speech allows me to say what I said, too. But I'm not too worried about you. You'll get there in time and you'll see what I mean in a few years. Actually, you saw the benefit of SA when you learned "Killers," so I think that's good. But reread this thread from the top and read a little more about it. You may not stop raking forever because of it, but you'll definitely see why I'm not in favor of it.

 

[dougjwray]

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy...
Would you agree that raking lends itself to slurred notes and that SA lends itself to detached notes, and that musical phrasing calls for slurred notes sometimes and detached notes other times and that therefore raking is good some times and SA is good other times, depending on the interpretation of the music at hand?

 

[Suckbird]

you're going to sit here and keep saying raking is better because you saw a film of Jamerson doing it? Fine. No skin off my nose. You all obviously know much more than Dave.

could someone please tell me what's so good about jamerson?

what i've heard he's playing with one finger... and you cant play SA with one finger can you? Also, did he have any chops at all, if not i dont see why he would be a good example of any kind of technique...