Rant against Berklee

[Gopherbassist]

Wasn't Jeff Berlin banned from TalkBass decades ago for basically being a rage-baiting troll?

I believe we are not allowed to discuss moderation policy in public

 

[TomB]

You certainly may have more info than I. My summary of what I saw was simply a street level view I had while visiting. The Berkleee bookstore is gone from Mass Ave, relocated into a much smaller footprint on Boylston. The content of the bookstore is 95% NEC swag. There are a few Real Books on the shelf; but, the excellent Garisson Fewell Jazz Improv texts etc were nowhere to be seen - though I will admit some of that may have moved online. There simply was negligible Berklee content, primarily NEC.

I saw Zero guitars being schlepped, and only a single apparently orchestral bass along Boylston. As I said, Zero Wurlitzer or Daddy’s Junky or anything even distantly related. There simply was no Pop Music presence. On the streets.

You may be entirely correct that classroom instruction continues. You just wouldn't know it from the street.

I agree the neighborhood ain’t what it was, but let’s admit it, very few decent music stores are to be found anywhere in the US these days - Nashville and LA maybe…

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Brother

This just in: Most any college dergree is EXPENSIVE. And college is not for everyone. Including THAT guy.

Most self-trained musicians who walk into a strong academic music program usually have JUST this reaction to what seems like the stuffed shirts who ain't happenin' like him, and OMG INSIST he learns standard notation, theory, and the seemingly endless scores and exercises that have NOTHING to do with the REAL music he loves. This often emotional reaction, like most, can cloud your good sense. Or, some guys realize it's just NOT for them, and that's fine.

Smart people realize they are being handed the keys to the kingdom IF learning all these things to augment their natural talent and taste is a plus/plus game.

And some guys will always rebel against this orthodoxy, and some will do well at their thing, and some won't.

But I'd dare say that graduates from Berklee, North Texas, Belmont, Julliard, etc., have far more tools in their toolbox IF that's something they want to see through. You have to decide if it's worth it to you, like most big decisions in your life.

Brother Is you post spot on! Nobody starts running marathons the first day out of the womb. Music isn’t the sort of thing that one day the lightbulb pops on over your head and your off and running.

To me being a musician is life long collection of tools, some usable some not so much. Formal education IMO is the shortest path to having a full tool box. The other thing that it does is it give you the frame work so you can communicate in musical terms which make one a much more efficient musician, and frankly I can’t stress how important this is the larger your ensemble is.

Personally, I only had two years of formal music theory (mostly ear training, nomenclature, and dictation. That base of knowledge has served me well. It opened the doors for playing with better musicians, more secure gigs. and long term musical relationships.

 

[Podgorny]

In 2026, you don't go to Berklee for the music education, you go for the community. If you feel that $52k per year is an awful lot of money to pay to make friends, you'd be absolutely right.

 

[bassplayskev]

$52k?! Sheesh!!

 

[5StringBlues]

Jeff Berlin?


Cat knows nothing about geography.


Hillbillies!

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

He was banned from a few other places as well, like the old Bottom Line chat board, and lost his Bass Player magazine column too. He’s long since explained that he had issues to deal with and the rage is gone but he’s still talking about a lot of the same things that ticked people off back then. He’s not the only one, Carol Kaye was banned when some newby players started baiting her, especially the controversy over her Motown credits. Also Anthony Jackson and Ron Carter

A lot of it is just common sense. At that Peavey clinic I mentioned above, he said noone needed to go to school to learn rock bass. He suggested getting some list of "the greatest 100 albums of all time" and learn every song on every album by ear and you’ll be good to go because that is how most of the musicians who made those records did it. I agree since having to learn lots of tunes by Bob Dylan to play at an annual birthday tribute concert for over a decade taught me a lot. More recently I finally got into band doing some Beatles tunes and I’m learning a lot from working on those…augmented chords!!!

Ron Carter and Anthony Jackson are banned?

He was banned from a few other places as well, like the old Bottom Line chat board, and lost his Bass Player magazine column too. He’s long since explained that he had issues to deal with and the rage is gone but he’s still talking about a lot of the same things that ticked people off back then. He’s not the only one, Carol Kaye was banned when some newby players started baiting her, especially the controversy over her Motown credits. Also Anthony Jackson and Ron Carter

A lot of it is just common sense. At that Peavey clinic I mentioned above, he said noone needed to go to school to learn rock bass. He suggested getting some list of "the greatest 100 albums of all time" and learn every song on every album by ear and you’ll be good to go because that is how most of the musicians who made those records did it. I agree since having to learn lots of tunes by Bob Dylan to play at an annual birthday tribute concert for over a decade taught me a lot. More recently I finally got into band doing some Beatles tunes and I’m learning a lot from working on those…augmented chords!!!

Anthony Jackson and Ron Carter are banned?

 

[hrodbert696]

Friendly reminder that moderation decisions are not discussed on open forums, which would include decisions to ban members. I know that's bad for the gossip mill, but it also protects the privacy of people affected. I will say, in the general sense, that sometimes a member's account is discontinued by mutual agreement rather than their being banned by the mods.

 

[brianrost]

Anthony Jackson and Ron Carter are banned?

My memory may be off on whether they were banned or they just left after being abused by disrespectful posters. I was not talking about here at TB, though. The Bottom Line was an old e-mail list-based community forum and there were a few others that famous players visited but didn't stay very long.

Jeff Berlin really is a special case. He’s never shied away from responding to attacks, he’s mellowed out quite a bit but his days of hanging tough in flame wars has become an urban legend.

As far as Mr. Rabin, he’s polite enough not to name names.

I should point out that while Berklee has a reputation as a jazz school , it covers a wide swath of music education, like courses in scoring video games and electronic music production. Most interesting in relation to the rant is that today Berklee is churning out lots of bluegrass musicians, but there is no actual bluegrass major. The program was developed to be based on one-to-one or small group tutoring because that was how the music was created. The participants actually major in something else. I met a fiddler who told me her major was jazz vocals but was deeply involved in the bluegrass classes.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

So right about the culture of music and its infrastructure around Berklee back in the Day. As a teenager, we had a circuit of guitar stores we ran, looking for cheap used gear. Daddy’s Junky Music and E. U. Wurlitzer prime among them, but there were 3 or 4 other one who’s names I’ve forgotten. GC killed all of them. I saw members of Aerosmith, Boston, and the Cars in those shops, I remember them clearing the amp room at EU so Joe Perry could try out some old amp, we huddled in the next room listening to him wail away at crushing volume. The only one left is Mr. Music in Allston. They survived by specializing in vintage gear, still a great guitar store, and hardly changed in all theses years.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I've told this story before, but it always struck me funny. On one of my many guitar-store crawls around Berklee, must have been around 1979, I walked out of EU Wurlitzer and saw two "bums" sitting on an old truck bench seat that had been left out for trash. The Mass Ave. end of Newbury Street was a lot grungier in those days, so this was not an unusual sight. These days they'd probably be arrested for vagrancy, the Louis Vuitton crowd mustn't be exposed to such awful people. Both were dressed pretty ratty and looked strung out. I walked past them and realized it was Joe Perry and Brad Whitford from Aerosmith, this was actually the first time I'd seen him around. I yelled out "Joe Perry!". He didn't even look at me, just raised three fingers in my direction, like the Pope giving a benediction (or ordering 3 beers). My Low Rent Brush with Greatness.

Another place we used to haunt (mainly to score some weed) was Washington Street, the so-called "Combat Zone", home to most of the local prostitutes, junkies, and street people, but they also had a few evil-looking pawn shops, that sold (pretty clearly stolen) guitars and basses. There were a bunch of faded-glory old movie theaters gone to seed and showing x-rated films. You'd hardly recognize it now, completely cleaned up and gentrified, as is most of downtown Boston.