Rant - Music Store Bass Set-ups

[jpmcbride]

That was a lot of writing, I got bored.

I think about this every time I go into a music store and pick up a bass and the actions is unplayable. FOrtunately I know how to setup basses, so I can give it the once over and more or less determine that it can be made playable. But it still ruins the experience of playing. And it probably puts off a lot of buyers that don't know how to do setups, or even that they need to be done. What about a complete beginner who has no idea?

I can't understand why the stores don't have their techs do a very quick and basic setup for the instruments hanging on the walls. I know they could do it without it costing them much and it would probably increase sales. I'm only an amateur at setups, and I know I could bring most of them into playable condition in about 5 minutes each.

I was at GC onetime and a guy was trying out a bass that was really unplayable. He said something to the sales guy, so the sales guy brought the tech over and tightened the truss rod and brought it into a reasonable playing range. Took all of about 15 seconds. That's all you need, just a basic setup.

I bought a player Precision on sale last week at GC. The output jack was no good - the cord would just fall out of it. Their tech popped off the pickguard and bent the contact on the jack. Took a couple minutes and was fixed. This tells me that no one is even checking the instruments at all before hanging them on the wall.

 

[ashtray]

I’ve worked at a mom and pop music store - actually, a couple of them. At the bigger shop, when UPS brought a delivery of a dozen guitars/basses, I’d need to rearrange the store, move stacks of amps, in order to make space for the new guitars. We would often rearrange things as inventory came in and left so that the store never looked empty.

So when a stack of guitars arrived, you spent a couple hours making space for the new inventory, and then a couple hours opening all the cardboard boxes and removing the packaging, inspecting instruments for damage, comparing the delivery against the order, etc. Then you had to add all the items to the computer system, set the pricing, then print out the tags to hang on the instruments. This was all while operating the store - answering the phone, helping customers, watching for theft, etc. Busy day.

You’ll notice in that whole thing, no set up time. Heck, I was a minimum wage employee - they didn’t have me do setups (I could do them, and had done hundreds on my own guitars.).

After they were all hung on the wall, displayed properly, then if you had time you could actually inspect them for setup and plug them in.

And after all that, there’s the bass on the wall that’s been sitting untouched for 2 months - aside from weekly dusting. That bass may develop fret sprout that goes unnoticed, or neck warp, or any issue.

The bigger the shop, the more inventory you have to keep track of - including instrument you might not even know how to play. And the shop really only pays to have the minimum amount of employees working at any time to cover demand. Often that means one person opening the store and working alone until the afternoon.

So yeah, I cut shops a lot of slack. The better shops will have a tech on hand during busier hours to quickly fix/set up an inventory instrument that a customer is thinking of buying.

 

[jd56hawk]

Anyway, I figured this Squier was the lower line so they must have really gone down-hill since I owned one many years ago. $450 would have been reasonable for a decent P-Bass and I'd have probably put in different pups sometime, but like I said, too far out for me.

You based that on one Squier bass?
Please!
These things happen, with bargain-priced basses and top-of-the-line ones, no matter the name on the headstock.
I can tell you about a few Musicman horror stories, but...
The simple truth is, I've read countless posts from people who bought that particular Squier and were completely satisfied. I'm guessing it's their best-loved bass in their current line this past year or two, maybe even more so than the '50s P bass.
As for quality, Squier quality is still very good, even the Affinity line has stepped it up..and a set up, especially after the pitfalls of shipping, is an entirely different issue.
I'd never blame any manufacturer for something that happens after it leaves the factory.
Right now the Guitar Center near me has 60 basses and 400 guitars.
How long would it take to set them all up?
(Yes, I realize they didn't all arrive in one shipment.)

 

[Real Soon]

Lol at this point, if I'm walking into a brick & mortar store to shop an instrument... unless it's somewhere like Maple Street Guitars (Atlanta, GA), I might just bring my own hex wrenches and screwdrivers. I think big box stores ask manufacturers to randomize the setup, sort of like the RANDOM button in a video game where you're creating your character's avatar. Some of the poopie I've seen....

 

[JW56789]

And the dirty little secret to all this:

LOTS of guys will play it however it came to them for years, high strings, satellite dish relief, nut with a piece of matchstick in one of the broken slots, never think twice about it. Setup, huh?

 

[31HZ]

When we tipped over to the majority of consumers valuing price, convenience, and next-day shipping over quality and skilled craftsmanship, we basically told the retail industry that a careful final setup was no longer a top priority, and they changed their models in order to stay in business.

 

[rockinrayduke]

Learned what to see decades ago what issues could be corrected in a potentially good bass to make it a great bass. Crappy setups at GC don’t bother me much because I’m able to now see whether a string change, a truss rod tweak or a fret dress or all of the above would pay off for me in the long run. I’ve been wrong a couple of times but for the most part understand what a bass goes through before it gets to your local GC. Most problems in a set up there are fixed with a good setup from a tech or luthier.

 

[Fernando Costa]

I think we should go a step further. This will never change, maybe worse. Let's be realistic, nowadays every musician must know how to make a basic setup of their instrument, it's part of learning. Relief? A screw and a feeler gauge! Action? Tighten or loosen some screws. Intonation? A tuner! Learning how to make the simplest weld won't kill anyone.

The time when everything came perfectly into our hands is over. Playing the instrument is much harder than all that. Also, some instruments need maintenance and setup 2 or 3 times a year, you see, nobody hires an electrical engineer to change a bulb. It's not a simple question like: I paid and I want it perfect, setup is a recurrent task.

 

[Hounddog409]

Here's the real story here:

To have at least a competent guitar tech setup every bass in a given store is simply going to add to the selling price, or on the other hand rob them of some maneuvering room on the price as they've added to their cost, when they know damn good and well you or anybody else may very well come in, play it for an hour, tie up a salesman, then go buy it online for 10 bucks less and tell all your friends how that first store was charging way too much.

Then get on TalkBass and moan and groan that the online seller should have done a setup, and 'should I return it?'. Then wonder where all the local music stores went . . . .

Get a grip.

This is where I consider it VITAL to learn to do your own setups.

I've been pleasantly surprised that all three Squiers I've bought have come in reasonably set up. I never expect to buy a bass, and after living with it for a while,not begin to reel it in to exactly like I like it. These things were made in sunny, tropical Indonesia, most likely with barely aged wood in a 110% humidity environment on mostly warm days. Then an ocean voyage in a container for who knows how long. I'd not surprised if Fender QC does much more than check 1 or 2 out of a batch just to be sure they're in the ballpark. I'm impressed they were as close as they were, and have given me no problems getting them dialed in.

And yet, their more expensive American cousins seemed to have not fared much better, did they? For two or three or four times the price. Much better everything, more time spent in building, and made domestically. Hmmm . . . . .

This is the nature of mass production with a material as variable as wood. It's never going to be completely controllable and repeatable, whether you've aged wood for years like Alembic does, or a few months like Squier.

Most everything I try in stores is usually in the ballpark setup wise, and I check to see if there's room to fine-tune it to suit me, and there always is. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if I found one exactly as I'd set it up for me, but if I never find one, that's fine, I always expect and actually look forward to living with the new one and getting it just like I want it . . . because I know how.

Not to mention if you have these skills, evaluating a used bass is now a far easier and reliable exercise.

For me, it's invaluable for so many reasons, plus I never have to take it to someone else. You can tell even a great chef how you want your steak grilled, but it's never quite the same as doing it yourself. Plus, you can grill it yourself . . . . on his day off.

I get a kick out of the "the setup was so bad i couldnt even play it"...

Really? I call BS on this. I have never played a bass that was not playable. Stings a little high and you cant play it? Maybe get better.

I adjust every bass i buy. Make sure neck relief is at least to spec. Check/ Adj pickup height to spec. Intonate, etc. Etc. Etc.

But this is mainly because i put my strings in it. And usually play for a few months for stuff to settle before going through setup.

Yes, i have played with strings higher than i prefer. Often much more so. Big freakin whoop. Still playable.

And not to buy a bass you like just because of setup if pretty dumb. Chances are it will go out of spec at some point and needing readjusted.

 

[2F/2F]

Sure, shops should set up their crap.

But I can pick up a bass and look at it in 20 to 30 seconds, and tell whether or not it can be saved with a setup, whether or not it's set up by the book or not. Even when instruments are set up by the book, they aren't set up the way I will be setting them up anyhow.

It really comes down to a matter of personal pride and work ethic inside the shop. I like to buy from places that have it, but I won't let a crappily set up instrument for the right price, that I know I can fix (and certainly will be anyhow), keep me from a purchase just on principle. I roll my eyes, think of them as idiots, enjoy my purchase, and go on with my life.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Who sets up the bass guitars at music stores? Does the factory set them up prior to shipping? Is the store responsible for setting them up upon arrival? Does anyone know what they are doing?

Typically I adjust new basses to my liking and sometimes order online, but sometimes buy from the stores. I like to try to keep the brick and morter stuff going so i can actually play gear before buying, but...

I went to a large chain music store a little while back and saw this Squier for $450:
View attachment 4520921
I was buying a guitar or bass that day. This fretboard really spoke to me and I thought this was a beautiful bass. I want a Fender or FSO P bass and this has to be the coolest looking bass to me with the best of both worlds; a jazz neck on a P bass. I would have bought this in a skinny minute and never even looked at anything else in the store, but I got it down to play it and unfortunately no matter how much I tried to talk myself into loving it, I just couldn't.

The setup was awful with string action running hard uphill from the bone to the bridge. I had a Squier many years ago and the action wasn't great but it was consistent while this one seemed to be warped as well as bad. And on top of that, I can't even imagine how with such a hard angle, but the A string buzzed while open leading me to believe the action couldn't be dropped. Maybe with some truss adjustment, etc, this could have been okay, but it was far too bad for me to take any chances on.

I bought a 6 string that day instead (ironically a Fender Newporter).

Anyway, I figured this Squier was the lower line so they must have really gone down-hill since I owned one many years ago. $450 would have been reasonable for a decent P-Bass and I'd have probably put in different pups sometime, but like I said, too far out for me.

Then I went to another shop a few days later and saw these two basses and just had to play them both:
View attachment 4520922
View attachment 4520923
These are top of the line basses, about $1550 for the Professional II P Bass and about $2100 for the American Ultra Jazz (the one I saw was a 4 string).

This was at a mom and pop type music store, but a pretty big one. I drooled over both of them because I've been getting Fender GAS lately (and they sound so so good). But unfortunately, the set up on both of them was really bad. I played the P bass first and won't knock the neck because it's chunkier than what I usually like. The problem was the action was absolutely horrible. Then I pulled down the Jazz and it had a tag on it saying it's the pick of the shop (and it probably would have been had it been set up properly), but it's action was probably worse than and P bass. I mean, I'm strong and could hardly even fret anything at 10 or above.

I bought an Ibanez Mikro from that same shop on a whim one day a few years ago and it felt like butter as it sat. Played wonderfully and still does (I've modded it to put in Aguilar PUPs and restrung it to BEAD). It's a regular player.

Anyway, how do they expect to sell $2k basses that play like crap in the store? Are we supposed to carry our own tools to the guitar stores to find out if we can get them play good for us or not? I was really shocked. I have bought $1500 basses before, but they played like a dream already and just needed very minor changes that I would make to any bass.

I am assuming either of the Fender basses can be set up properly and play like butter anywhere on the fret board, but I'm afraid to buy one at that price and take a chance. I think when I'm ready to lay down the cabbage on a nice one, I'm going to ask the store people to set it up or let me adjust it and see if I can get it set up properly. This is really ridiculous though.

I just took a trip to guitar center a couple weeks ago. The squires are the only things in the store that are ready to play. I'm talking a half inch to the fret board on everything over 600 bucks. It was insane! I told the guy. He was like, "really?! The Squire plays better than the elite?" I showed him. He grabbed a couple and walked off. I just think this needs to happen more often. Instead of complaining about them not being set up, let people know they aren't set up. And, that they'd probably sell if they were. He then said, you know, those squires just fly off the shelves. I said, I'm sure they do. They play well. These would too if people could play them.

 

[7dollarbologna]

Some people like high action

 

[jd56hawk]

I think I'll head to my local Guitar Center tomorrow and tell them I'll set up all of their basses...they only have 60.
I'll say I can do it for $20 a pop and lunch from the Chinese buffet a few stores away.
Okay, maybe it'll take a few days, but...

 

[kalle74]

As stated before, depends. A factory set-up (very generic set-up) will change somewhat while shipping. This has to do with climate, air moisture etc. Some shops shelve instruments as is when they arrive. Some shops will do an initial set-up if the instrument needs it upon arriving. The more experienced and serious shops (who almost invariably sell the more high-end and pricier stuff) have maintenance personnel who check up the instruments periodically, and make changes to the set-up to keep every instrument at it's best at all times.

 

[9c1ny]

Don't ever go TV shopping.
Crazy how they adjust the contrast on the expensive TV's versus the inexpensive ones

 

[Treblefree]

This is where I consider it VITAL to learn to do your own setups.

I've been pleasantly surprised that all three Squiers I've bought have come in reasonably set up.

Here's the thing. I do my own setups. No sweat. But, I'm not buying something that is so poorly set up that I can't tell if I can do something with it or not, especially at $2k. I can't recall exactly how many basses I've owned in my life. The majority were bought at the store and only one did I buy really poorly set up when I was young. I've bought probably 4 or 5 online and they all came relatively well set up, as good or better than any I've bought at the store. That's sad. Most guitar stores have dudes sitting around learning their own chops in their free time. Surely they can pull a bass off the wall and bring the action within a reasonable distance to not require a vice to fret it. As I said, if that Squier had been anything reasonable to where there weren't nearly an inch of daylight between the strings and frets and not been buzzing on top of that, I would have bought it that day.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Some business owners take pride in their work while others care about nothing but the bottom line. Some shops are owned and operated by professionals who are passionate about what they do. Other shops are basically Walmart for guitars and basses...and probably make most of their money selling $150 pieces of trash to unknowledgeable parents. It's analogous to buying a bike. Buy from a local bike shop with a good reputation and you will almost certainly end up with a bike that has been properly set up. Buy it from Walmart and you will have a dangerous bicycle-shaped-object that was "set up" by some random overworked employee who knows nothing about bikes.

When a town had a place you could buy basses and the competition was 20 miles away and required going there in person to be able to purchase a bass, then taking the extra time to ensure you got a sale in that town made a difference. Now you can go online, and the radius of competition is whole countries or continents provided you don't feel the need to try things out first. Things have changed, so unless you are looking at a shop selling vintage or unique items, then taking pride in your work in terms of a set up might actually harm your bottom line, and without the bottom line you can become an ex-shop (cheese or bass). It's a tough reality, and quite a lot of people are buying bicycles over the internet these days.

 

[steelbed45]

I've been buying through catalogs and then online for so long now, that the idea of going to a brick and mortar and basing the experience on how a bass is setup seems antiquated.

 

[BarqsBitMe]

I've been buying through catalogs and then online for so long now, that the idea of going to a brick and mortar and basing the experience on how a bass is setup seems antiquated.

I wasn't comparing local bike shops to online retailers. I was comparing local bike shops to giant department stores like WalMart. I have a Canyon and a Trek, both are awesome even though the Canyon was bought online.

I was comparing local, individually-owned music stores to giant retailers like GuitarCenter. Chances are that the owner of a small music store cares far more about the quality of their products and services than the faceless investors and executives who own/run GuitarCenter. The small music store owner might hire a professional to set up their instruments...or they might care enough to do it themselves. GuitarCenter might pay some 16 year old minimum wage to tune a bass before hanging it on the wall.

I understand that 21st century market forces have brought us to where we are now and have made it hard for brick and mortar stores to operate and succeed. I also understand that businesses can't ignore the bottom line if they wish to remain in business. That said I see where the original poster of this thread is coming from. It is frustrating how the bar for the expected quality of service and products across seemingly all industries just seems to keep dropping. Things just keep getting more and more expensive while the quality of those things just keeps going down.

It takes 20 minutes to do a decent setup on a bass. One would think any store trying to sell one worth thousands of dollars could invest 20 minutes into helping make a sale. I can only speak for myself but if I were ready to drop a ton of money on an instrument, I would walk out if it was set up like crap because that, to me, is an indication of that company's customer service. If they can't be bothered to set up an instrument they want to sell me, I doubt they can be bothered to help with any future problems that might arise with that instrument.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Are we supposed to carry our own tools to the guitar stores to find out if we can get them play good for us or not?

From reading this thread sounds like a good Idea

I ordered my last Bass Online from a successful one store Mom and Pop. Their Tech called me before shipping and asked how I wanted it setup. I can do my own setup [have all tools needed] so I had an Idea how I wanted it gave him the numbers and it arrived setup as I requested.

I can say even if store did setup pre wall some Basses won't hold initial setup for various reasons including shop not keeping with temp and humidity specs per manufactures.