This is from an old thread, actually the last reply in it. While I do agree with the sentiment that an instrument should be judged by aspects other than their collectible value, I do not think it is fair to neglect historic value. If there were truly less than 50 made, it is indeed an artifact. I'll say again just for clarity, I don't play rockabilly, far from it actually. However, that has nothing to do with this bass, and I find it strange that everyone writes it off as such.
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Double Bass Rare Kay TV-1 Bass
- Thread starter MollyKay
- Start date
This is from an old thread, actually the last reply in it. While I do agree with the sentiment that an instrument should be judged by aspects other than their collectible value, I do not think it is fair to neglect historic value. If there were truly less than 50 made, it is indeed an artifact. I'll say again just for clarity, I don't play rockabilly, far from it actually. However, that has nothing to do with this bass, and I find it strange that everyone writes it off as such.
Ditto. I should add a caveat to the end of my previous post... sell it for a premium to a Kay collector who will refin it to original spec.
"It's a player grade new instrument, not a historical object."
Uh... doesn't that describe every Kay ever made? If Stradivarius ever worked for Kay, that fact somehow eluded my learning...
Uh... doesn't that describe every Kay ever made? If Stradivarius ever worked for Kay, that fact somehow eluded my learning...
Awl
you guys (and gals) are something else
you REALLY do care about vintage American made plywood basses and not all of you think they are plywood junk food
SWEET
I am touched
thanks. 
I was completely on board with the whole vintage, collectable, gold sparkly thing and not removing the finish. I even went so far as having the vision of the Antiques Road Show in 50 years and listening to them in my head say if this had the original finish it would be worth blah, blah, blah. But since the original finished has been stripped it now worth blah then I saw this poor bass with my own eyes and went yep it is pretty sad looking. The neck had a textured alligator paint flaking off it wasnt comfortable to play.
So more then anything, I appreciate, that you all respect these plywood basses as more then just junk food. Our best intentions are to make these basses healthy and playable for the next generation I guess I could add attractive to the list too. And opinions are just that opinions I posted here knowing not everyone would agree with the decision to strip the bass and that is okay too.
Also ArenW you may want to contact Roger Stowers at kaybass.com to register your TV model (if you havent already). Roger was very curious about this bass and my findings. He was not surprised by the lack of a spruce top and feels this was a factory mistake or experiment. Either way Roger is very knowledgeable about Kay basses, he is pleasant and helpful when I have had questions.
Thanks...
I was completely on board with the whole vintage, collectable, gold sparkly thing and not removing the finish. I even went so far as having the vision of the Antiques Road Show in 50 years and listening to them in my head say if this had the original finish it would be worth blah, blah, blah. But since the original finished has been stripped it now worth blah then I saw this poor bass with my own eyes and went yep it is pretty sad looking. The neck had a textured alligator paint flaking off it wasnt comfortable to play.
So more then anything, I appreciate, that you all respect these plywood basses as more then just junk food. Our best intentions are to make these basses healthy and playable for the next generation I guess I could add attractive to the list too. And opinions are just that opinions I posted here knowing not everyone would agree with the decision to strip the bass and that is okay too.
Also ArenW you may want to contact Roger Stowers at kaybass.com to register your TV model (if you havent already). Roger was very curious about this bass and my findings. He was not surprised by the lack of a spruce top and feels this was a factory mistake or experiment. Either way Roger is very knowledgeable about Kay basses, he is pleasant and helpful when I have had questions.
Thanks...
I don't want it "restored", I want stuff like that LEFT ALONE.
I've never, nor will I ever paint flames on a vintage bass w/ original finish. I'll never refinish any worn vintage instrument that has one square inch of original finish in any way. If some numb nutz had already started stripping it or totally screwed up the finish that's another matter.
I made my living selling vintage instruments for quite a few years and learned you never ever ever strip an original finish instrument no matter how bad you think it looks. This is especially true of super rare stuff. If that was a 50's strat a $50,000 instrument, was turned into a $5,000 instrument.
I look at it like if you own a rare vintage instrument, you are it's care taker as much as you are it's owner. You owe it to future generations to preserve this piece of americana.
And I do understand, that they own the thing, they can throw it off a bridge if they want to. But that doesn't mean when someone CAN do something, they SHOULD.
I'd never heard of a tv-1 before this thread, but now I want to own an original finish tv-1.
But yes, I did paint flames on my brand new blond swingmaster.
Johnny
Somehow, I knew you'd reply to this thread.....
dcr
Please be sure to post some closeups of your double pin stripes when you have it finished. I've found that getting the pin strips to look like the Kay factory stripes is not one of the easier things to do on a Kay refinish job especially in the corners and the upper part of the back. I asked Al Link how they did it when I visited the Engelhardt-Link plant about 1980. He told me they had a special custom made spray tool to do that job and that it had cost them $12,000 to have a replacement made when the original Kay tool wore out. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see them using the tool while I was there.
I debated with myself on how far to go when I got the '40 Kay O-1. The debate didn't last long .... the original gnarly tailpiece wire, the warped bridge with "Kay" embossed in the underside, the original soundpost shimmed up with cardboard, and the endpin with a 1/2 pound of electrical tape had to go ..... no matter how historical it was
. I even steel-wooled a boatload of white paint specks off the bass and "lightly" applied a matching Watco oil to the original finish. Of course I left alone the nice lightened belly rubbed soul patch on an otherwise dark bass finish on the upper side bout. Now that I have it set up right and new guts and garbos, I feel like I have a nice compromise between downright great playability (boom-boom) and "historical" value. I kept all the old parts in case some collector in the future wants to make it unplayable agin and display it in the living room as a piece of furniture.Go get 'em Molly and Bass Monkey
. Make it sound pretty. By the way, does any one actually know what the Kay TV model really looked like? Are there color fotos anywhere? How would one go about restoring to the original ..... even if you wanted too?
That was the first resource I went to after I bought the bass about 8 years ago(for $100!!!). He seemed like a genuinely good guy, but at the time he didn't have much info on this model. From what I understand the point of the "gold top" paintjob was primarily for the purpose of avoiding glare in the TV cameras, as well as look cool
I'd call a 50 plus year old instrument, that was super rare when new, historically significant. Technically there were probably a lot more strads than this model.
Don't hate on the Kay.
If I had to choose one to keep and play I'd choose the Kay over the stradivarius. A lot (probably most) of music I listen to was recorded on kay, you can beat on 'em, carry 'em around, and not worry about them. A very practical instrument. Plus an all original 50's one in a gold finish would be cooler than the underside of the pillow.
You don't like 'em, I get it. I don't like Jazz, I don't like classical music, and the sound of a bow on a DB makes me nauseous, but I don't hate on the people that do like those things.
Of course if you gave 'em too me, I'd choose the strad, sell it, buy a new house and a fill it with Kays.
That's some genuine stuff there Jonny Nuke ! I like your refreshing point of view on junkfood Kay plys even if their necks are thinner than a Eastern Racer's belly in forest crawlin' with full grown possums 
.P.S. I lived in El Dorado for about a year workin' in the refinery. About 2 months ago, we got to play some good music with two good Arrrr - Kansas boys that work at Janet Davis Music when they were up visiting the Gibson guitar manufacturing plant here in Bozeman. One of them loved playing my Kay and said he was on a mission to find a Kay to buy (but it wasn't gonna be mine
).
Get out of my head, that's what I was thinking all day yesterday.
BTW the old goldtop gibsons weren't gold paint, they were bronze shavings and clear lacquer, that's why they turned green like this one.
for you Bob, of course.
Pin stripping can be a tedious job. It takes a steady hand but an even better eye. My husband has years of custom painting cars and motorcycles. Before I met him in the early 80s he was hooked up with a Gold Wing motorcycle club and did all kind of custom paint work. In these groups everything has to be color coordinated and the pull behind trailers needs to match the motorcycle. He did lots of custom pin striping (no flames though) and two tone painting during that time.
Bob if you ever get to this part of the country take a visit to the York, PA Harley Davidson motorcycle assembly plant. The way they pin stripe their bikes is pretty slick the lay a boot or template over the tank and trace the line with a pin stripe brush and faster then lightening...there are pin stripes. This used to be a hand process, by now it is probably a robot. Regardless the whole factory tour is pretty cool.
Pin stripe pictures coming in a week or two right now we are at the ground coat and color tinting stage.
Glad to hear you've got some experience doing this job. I look forward to seeing your photos.for you Bob, of course.
Pin stripping can be a tedious job. It takes a steady hand but an even better eye. My husband has years of custom painting cars and motorcycles. Before I met him in the early 80s he was hooked up with a Gold Wing motorcycle club and did all kind of custom paint work. In these groups everything has to be color coordinated and the pull behind trailers needs to match the motorcycle. He did lots of custom pin striping (no flames though) and two tone painting during that time.
Bob if you ever get to this part of the country take a visit to the York, PA Harley Davidson motorcycle assembly plant. The way they pin stripe their bikes is pretty slick the lay a boot or template over the tank and trace the line with a pin stripe brush and faster then lightening...there are pin stripes. This used to be a hand process, by now it is probably a robot. Regardless the whole factory tour is pretty cool.
Pin stripe pictures coming in a week or two right now we are at the ground coat and color tinting stage.
It's not easy to paint two parallel lines that are only about 1/32" wide on a multi-curved surface. However, IMO, a Kay (or other bass without real purfling) refinishing job that doesn't include the painted "purfling" looks amateurish with a capital "A" regardless of how well the rest of the refinishing was performed. On the other hand, I've seen the results of someone trying to use one of those little hand held devices they sell for pinstriping with a little bottle to hold the paint and small wheels to apply the paint. The result was far from perfect. [I bought one of those many years ago. They may work well on metal surfaces, but I never could get it to work well on curved finished wood surfaces.]
BTW - I don't need to go to PA to visit the Harley Davidson plant. We have one of those in Kansas City too.
Hey MollyKay,
I can't wait to see how it turns out, and I will agree with you that those before pics ARE butt ugly. So when she's all fixed up, may I drive up and manhandle her for a bit?
I can't wait to see how it turns out, and I will agree with you that those before pics ARE butt ugly. So when she's all fixed up, may I drive up and manhandle her for a bit?
I figured Engelhardt (and Kay) just used one of these. It's called a Beugler.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
That's exactly the kind of tool I was mentioning. I don't remember if it was that brand or not, but I couldn't get a decent looking set of lines with the one I had. It had two wheels with a separator like the one in the photo. Because of variation in the surface caused by the wood grain and the table's curvature, one or both lines would skip. If I pressed down harder to maintain contact, the wheels made little dents or tiny cracks in the varnish or lacquer and the paint would spread out or even wick into the wood itself in a worse case. The finish on a wood/plywood bass is much softer than that of a car. Perhaps an experienced user could make it work on a bass, but for an occational use, I don't find it to be practical.
I think if you had a properly cured lacquer finish, it should work OK. People either love or hate the Beugler, and I understand it has a steep learning curve.
i have a beugler, biggest waste of money ever, they never lay a straight even line because one shot sticks to parts of the wheel that it wants to, ive been pinstriping for about 4 years, do you guys know a bunch of pinstripers? probably not because between those stick on ones for cars and tools like that have driven it into a lost art, and now to the bass, id rather put that in a muesum than play it, although at one point it was meant to be played, it is now something we should leave for future generations to study, the original flake should have been painted back on...but then again wouldnt it be beating a dead horse? the paint was beyond touching up or fixing, and to add new paint is just as bad as adding the hand rubbed finish, it couldnt be restored to orignal, so i really do commend you for making a unplayable instrument now playable, rather than making a wreck a pretty wreck, and to everyone hasslin this lady, relax guys, when you find your rare instruments then you can restore it however you find fit, bob if you want me to tell you a trick for adding original stripes to a kay pm me
