Double Bass Rare Kay TV-1 Bass

[Bob Branstetter]

Thanks again for the support (or not)…and to clarify, we don’t strip and refinish a bass just because we can. We give serious thought to what is best to keep a bass in good playing condition and attractive for years to come.

The photos you've posted look like you've done a nice job. Did you stain the wood, or is all of the color in the finish?

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Teijo, your English is fine! Better than a lot of what I see from "English speakers" on the web.

Molly, the bass looks great. Nice to see a solid, playable instrument emerge from the primordial ooze.

 

[MollyKay]

Did you stain the wood, or is all of the color in the finish?

All of the color is in the finish. This bass was “grounded” with a coat of Waterlox and then each coat after was tinted with a custom mix of artist colors (our choice, trial and error). We started with yellow ocher then on to burnt sienna, finally raw umber and burnt umber. We will finish the bass with pinstripes and then one final clear coat of the Waterlox.

Each coat is hand applied…not brushed or sprayed. The hand rubbing process really brings out the character marks in the bass. The bass keeps that “vintage” look. I don’t know if this is proper or correct but it is a process that is working for us. Our very first refinished bass (a project I had not shared on the discussion board) we used the Waterlox with Min-Wax stains. The bass had beautiful flamed maple wood and the processed worked well, but the bass had no vintage mojo appearance. It looked like a refinished Kay bass…it was pretty and sounded good…but nothing special. The process we are experimenting with now is making a vintage bass look like a vintage bass.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

All of the color is in the finish. This bass was “grounded” with a coat of Waterlox and then each coat after was tinted with a custom mix of artist colors (our choice, trial and error). We started with yellow ocher then on to burnt sienna, finally raw umber and burnt umber. We will finish the bass with pinstripes and then one final clear coat of the Waterlox.

Each coat is hand applied…not brushed or sprayed. The hand rubbing process really brings out the character marks in the bass. The bass keeps that “vintage” look. I don’t know if this is proper or correct but it is a process that is working for us. Our very first refinished bass (a project I had not shared on the discussion board) we used the Waterlox with Min-Wax stains. The bass had beautiful flamed maple wood and the processed worked well, but the bass had no vintage mojo appearance. It looked like a refinished Kay bass…it was pretty and sounded good…but nothing special. The process we are experimenting with now is making a vintage bass look like a vintage bass.

I'm not clear on what you mean by "grounded", but I hope that means a barrier so that the color doesn't get down into the wood. If the wood left is "white" then the next guy down the road who has to do a refinish job on it in 40-50 years will have a clean slate to work with. Unfortunately, many folks who refinish these plywood basses can only see the present and stain the wood so that future restoration is impossible.

 

[MollyKay]

I'm not clear on what you mean by "grounded", but I hope that means a barrier so that the color doesn't get down into the wood./QUOTE]

Yep…that is exactly what I mean! The bass was coated so no color gets into the grain of the wood. This bass can easily be brought back to “the white” with no color in the grain of the wood or on the bass. We learned this valuable lesson from Martin Sheridan’s thread “varnish matters”. And having stripped our 1937 AS bass to the white only to find the luthier/person who refinished it in 1969 had NOT coated the bass first. We had a devil of a time getting all the white paint out of the wood grain on that bass. So grounding/coating the bass BEFORE the first coat of color is only proper while paying respect for the next person who wants to refinish it.

 

[dakpluto]

I still say you should leave the fingerboard in that color and not "ebonize" it. I like the natural wood look with that color on the bass.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

Yep…that is exactly what I mean! The bass was coated so no color gets into the grain of the wood. This bass can easily be brought back to “the white” with no color in the grain of the wood or on the bass. We learned this valuable lesson from Martin Sheridan’s thread “varnish matters”. And having stripped our 1937 AS bass to the white only to find the luthier/person who refinished it in 1969 had NOT coated the bass first. We had a devil of a time getting all the white paint out of the wood grain on that bass. So grounding/coating the bass BEFORE the first coat of color is only proper while paying respect for the next person who wants to refinish it.

It certainly sounds like you've done your home work. Unfortunately, most of the refinished basses that I've run into were refinished by amateurs who apparently think that staining is the only way to get color on wood and give no thought to the future. Hopefully some of those who are contemplating refinishing in the future will read your posts and learn something.

 

[MT Spaces]

Sure does look nice Molly and Monkey ! After I compared your finish work with some of the photos of the sold and for-sale Kays from the early 1950's on Jerry Fretwell's website, I am thinkin' you folks did a great job of making it look vintage and true to the form. I'd say you just transformed a ratty 1953 TV-1 into a sweet 1953 M-1 with an extra rotund hind end .

 

[ZachDad]

Sure does look nice Molly and Monkey ! After I compared your finish work with some of the photos of the sold and for-sale Kays from the early 1950's on Jerry Fretwell's website, I am thinkin' you folks did a great job of making it look vintage and true to the form. I'd say you just transformed a ratty 1953 TV-1 into a sweet 1953 M-1 with an extra rotund hind end .

Leave it to Bob to take it right to the gutter! LOL!

 

[MT Spaces]

Leave it to Bob to take it right to the gutter! LOL!

Hey now ZachDad ..... no gutter thoughts on my part .... that just describes both of my Grandmothers, two women I loved dearly and miss greatly . I can hardly wait to see the finished Kay with the "purfling" pinstriping and all put back together. Molly .... I think I'm gonna sell my Gamut Pistoy Medium Varnished G and get a Heavy instead. You would be first in line .... maybe you could put it on this Kay when you get finished .

 

[ZachDad]

Hey now ZachDad ..... no gutter thoughts on my part .... that just describes both of my Grandmothers, two women I loved dearly and miss greatly . I can hardly wait to see the finished Kay with the "purfling" pinstriping and all put back together. Molly .... I think I'm gonna sell my Gamut Pistoy Medium Varnished G and get a Heavy instead. You would be first in line .... maybe you could put it on this Kay when you get finished .

Sounds like you come from good stock! Not to highjack, but how is your string experiment going?

 

[MT Spaces]

..... how is your string experiment going?

Swimmingly ... Thank you for asking . I just got the big honkin' Gamut Plain A gut I bought off Jason Sypher ... haven't put it on yet ... those Garbo A & E strings are just starting to sound swell. After I get the Pistoy Heavy G, I think my big string lust will be satisfied for a while . I will report on the Gamut thread at some point.

Back to topic ... I have a question Molly and Monkey .... would you be able to achieve that typical Kay shadowing / sunburst effect (don't know the right term, like my '40 Kay in the avatar) with the refinishing approach that you are using? I mean that look where the waistline, neck junction, and tailpiece areas are darker than the rest of the bass. I guess I don't know if Kay did that originally by hosing those areas down with nearly opaque stuff. Could you do that with heavily colored oil varnish applied in many layers to specifically just those areas on the front and back?

 

[MollyKay]

... I have a question Molly and Monkey .... would you be able to achieve that typical Kay shadowing / sunburst effect (don't know the right term, like my '40 Kay in the avatar) with the refinishing approach that you are using? I mean that look where the waistline, neck junction, and tailpiece areas are darker than the rest of the bass. I guess I don't know if Kay did that originally by hosing those areas down with nearly opaque stuff. Could you do that with heavily colored oil varnish appled in many layers to specifically just those areas on the front and back?

…I don’t know? We haven’t tried the vintage Kay sunburst finish…yet. I think this process will work but we would (in my mind) need to get the base color we like and then spray the vintage shading on to the bass. The technique we are currently using is hand rubbing the color in to the bass. This technique gives color to all the “nooks and crannies” of the bass and keeps that vintage look. I think we could do all these same steps and the spray the final, darker sunburst on to the bass.

We have a 1944 Kay bass on the bench that the Monkey is using his air brush to touch up the neck and a new volute (the E side volute was missing) in an attempt to color match every thing to the original vintage sunburst. So to answer you question…yes…I think we can achieve a Kay vintage sunburst finish if we are willing to use the air brush or spray gun for the final touches.

My husband has the skill, I am just his muse for communicating…he is not much for hanging out on the computer. He would rather work on a bass then talk about it…we are yin and yan, the artist and the craftsmen, Molly and Monkey…LOL…I like that!

 

[MollyKay]

Please be sure to post some closeups of your double pin stripes when you have it finished. I've found that getting the pin strips to look like the Kay factory stripes is not one of the easier things to do on a Kay refinish job especially in the corners and the upper part of the back.

…just for you Bob. Close ups of the new handpainted pinstripes. They are so fresh you can still smell the paint.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

…just for you Bob. Close ups of the new handpainted pinstripes. They are so fresh you can still smell the paint.

Looks nice Molly!

 

[Johnny Atomic]

…just for you Bob. Close ups of the new handpainted pinstripes. They are so fresh you can still smell the paint.

Great job on the stripes, how'd ya do that?

 

[drurb]

Really nice job on that painted purfling! Yes, how did you do that? So Molly, what do you two do with all of the vintage basses you collect and restore? Do you play them all? Do you trade/sell them?

 

[MollyKay]

how'd ya do that?

The stripes were hand painted with Winsor & Newton lamp black artist oil paint thinned with a little Waterlox to make it flow out nicely, a thin paint brush, a steady hand, great eyes and 35 years of skill and experience. Everything needed to paint pinstripes can be purchased at a craft store…but the skill…that takes dedication, patience and persistence. There is no secret or substitute for just doing it…it is the only way to learn and acquire these skills.

 

[drurb]

The stripes were hand painted with Winsor & Newton lamp black artist oil paint thinned with a little Waterlox to make it flow out nicely, a thin paint brush, a steady hand, great eyes and 35 years of skill and experience. Everything needed to paint pinstripes can be purchased at a craft store…but the skill…that takes dedication, patience and persistence. There is no secret or substitute for just doing it…it is the only way to learn and acquire these skills.

Completely free-hand? Any template? Any pencil drawing first?

 

[Bob Branstetter]

The stripes were hand painted with Winsor & Newton lamp black artist oil paint thinned with a little Waterlox to make it flow out nicely, a thin paint brush, a steady hand, great eyes and 35 years of skill and experience. Everything needed to paint pinstripes can be purchased at a craft store…but the skill…that takes dedication, patience and persistence. There is no secret or substitute for just doing it…it is the only way to learn and acquire these skills.

I can't figure out it why you haven't done the pin stripping on all of your refinished basses before now. You and your husband obviously have the skill to to it and with your dedication to preserving old American plywood basses, it seems out of character not to have done it on your previous refinishes. IMO, It's the attention to details like the painted "purfling" that make the difference between a professional looking refinish job and one done by amateurs. I look forward to seeing your "sunburst" job.