Double Bass Reaching 5th position on DB for the vertically challenged!

[Bass Momma]

I have a 3/4 DB, a good teacher, and we're working through (among other things) Vance's Progressive Repertoire vol. 1. I'm 5'4", and have the peg all the way in. The piece I've just started on has a 5th position G harmonic as its final note - and I can't reach it. Well, at least not easily - I'm turning the bass and leaning it so as to get my arm further round, which is pretty clumsy.

My teacher says not to worry, it'll come. I believe, O Lord. But I'd appreciate any advice, or experience from other relatively diddy folk. I know there are great small players - Jane Little, for instance, so it must be doable.

Maybe I should strap weights on my hands, and develop prehensile arms! (Actually, when I lug my DB over to my teacher's house, I do sometimes wonder why I quit harmonica to play electric bass!! Maybe I just need to haul it around more often! )

 

[Steve Freides]

@Bass Momma, welcome to TalkBass.

• If this isn't something your teacher is able to address with you, I'd consider a lesson with another teacher in order to get additional input.
• 
  
• Personally, I wouldn't comment on the specifics of your problem without seeing you play in person, or at least on a decent video where I could get a sense of what's going on.
• 
  
• Not all 3/4 basses are created equal - they have different slopes to the shoulders and a laundry list of other things that are different between them. Maybe you're playing one that's just too big for you.
• 
  
• You don't need to play this 3/4 bass, or any 3/4 bass, or any specific bass if it's not a good fit for you. Maybe you need a 5/8 or 1/2 size bass. If you happen to be anywhere near me (outside NYC), I have a 1/2 size bass I've been meaning to sell - you can borrow it.

And I'll also add that it would be good to know how long you've been playing, how long you've been studying, and what other books you're working from. I happen to be teaching a student at the moment who he started playing October, already playing trumpet and piano at a fairly high level, and although he's been making rapid progress every week, we still haven't played that G on the 1st string yet because we're moving up the neck about as fast as I feel he can handle - maybe we'll get to that soon, but I really do wonder why a teacher is asking you to play a note you can't reach.

-S-

 

[Lee Moses]

Hi Bass Momma, some good thoughts and a kind offer above from Steve. I will add that the octave G should not be a terribly difficult note to reach. That has me wondering about your left arm technique and how you are holding the bass relative to your body. I don't understand the "it'll come" advice in this particular situation, as appropriate as it may be for others. But as Steve mentioned, there may be some factors that need to be seen to be understood.

 

[The Biz]

You should be able to raise the peg maybe two inches, stand as usual but with the bass maybe 3 inches further forward (ie peg 3 inches further away from you). The bass will lay a little flatter, giving you access to the 5th position harmonic without affecting your 1st position playing.

BUT this really is a teacher in front of student problem to solve.

I am not much taller and make micro ajustments as I get more comfortable with that method

 

[BarfanyShart]

I kinda dig my kid's "1/8" bass. It's got about a 33" scale and I can sit in a regular chair and play all over it like a cello. I'm a short guy who used to play a 7/8 maple monster, standing. Now that I'm not trying to impress anybody, I might throw some Red Mitchell strings on this thing and keep it when my kid grows out of it.

 

[Tom Lane]

I have a 3/4 DB, a good teacher, and we're working through (among other things) Vance's Progressive Repertoire vol. 1. I'm 5'4", and have the peg all the way in. The piece I've just started on has a 5th position G harmonic as its final note - and I can't reach it. Well, at least not easily - I'm turning the bass and leaning it so as to get my arm further round, which is pretty clumsy.

My teacher says not to worry, it'll come. I believe, O Lord. But I'd appreciate any advice, or experience from other relatively diddy folk. I know there are great small players - Jane Little, for instance, so it must be doable.

Maybe I should strap weights on my hands, and develop prehensile arms! (Actually, when I lug my DB over to my teacher's house, I do sometimes wonder why I quit harmonica to play electric bass!! Maybe I just need to haul it around more often! )

Suffice it to say, at 5'4" you're in very good company and there are plenty of brilliant players more vertically challenged than you who get around just fine. One of the very first things your teacher should help you with is how to hold the bass so that you can comfortable reach most of the fingerboard and use the bow comfortably. If they haven't done this already with you, it's time to ask.

 

[Bass Momma]

Thanks for the responses! I'm a beginner on DB, and got a bit itchy between lessons. That high G was a single note at the end of a 4th position piece, so I think my teacher's text response should have better been interpreted as "don't worry about that note". Stance is an ongoing topic!

 

[Don Kasper]

Stance is an ongoing topic

So, you're Standing, not Sitting? Please confirm or clarify.
Also - the Nut (just behind low F on the E string), should be at your Eyebrows. Any lower and the resulting geometry might cause this, and many (other) problems. It sounds like your bass may need to be set higher (try extending the endpin 2 -3 inches or so as an experiment.)
Thanks.

 

[Bass Momma]

So, you're Standing, not Sitting? Please confirm or clarify.
Also - the Nut (just behind low F on the E string), should be at your Eyebrows. Any lower and the resulting geometry might cause this, and many (other) problems. It sounds like your bass may need to be set higher (try extending the endpin 2 -3 inches or so as an experiment.)
Thanks.

I'm standing. And yes, nut a bit above eyebrows. I'll try extending the pin. Thanks.

 

[Steve Freides]

Hey, @Don Kasper, one of the things I try to notice is where the bow lands on the strings as we adjust peg height. Sometimes I find a student bowing, with a normal (sort of straight) arm, and ending up over the end of the fingerboard instead of between the end of the fingerboard and the bridge. In those cases, I'll sometimes try raising the peg to get the bow arm to end up lower on the instrument. I try to use the "at the eyebrows" as an initial guideline but then adjust from there.

If I can't find the happy place of peg length, I then consider that the bass might just be too big for the student. After all, if you can't get the left arm to work and the right arm to work, maybe - not always, but maybe, sometimes - the instrument isn't the right size.

[RAMBLE]

My cello teacher says "peg" means the thing in the headstock you turn to adjust the tuning of the strings. The other thing is called an endpin, according to him, but I can't stop calling it "peg."

Which reminds me of an old joke, no doubt not politically correct any more but I really, really, really don't mean to offend anyone. Anyway, it goes like this:

So I said to my girl with the wooden leg,

"Peg,"

I said ...

-S-

[/RAMBLE]


-S-

 

[Don Kasper]

ne of the things I try to notice is where the bow lands on the strings as we adjust peg height.

Yes. I agree. This is what I was referring to in my comment - "...(other) problems.....".
If the OP is not able to touch the G harmonic on the G string, (with her Left Hand), the bass might be too Low.
A picture of the OP at the bass would be very helpful.
I'll let the Joke Police handle your Joke.
Thanks.

 

[Bass Momma]

Yes. I agree. This is what I was referring to in my comment - "...(other) problems.....".
If the OP is not able to touch the G harmonic on the G string, (with her Left Hand), the bass might be too Low.
A picture of the OP at the bass would be very helpful.
I'll let the Joke Police handle your Joke.
Thanks.

Working on the photo.. we’ve had two nights of gigs (me on EB), so husband was horizontal on the sofa and refusing photographer duties today.

Yes, the bow can migrate from the correct position. I’m set up in front of a full length mirror and try to keep an eye on that.

 

[Don Hergert]

So I said to my girl with the wooden leg,

Also - the Nut (just behind low F on the E string), should be at your Eyebrows.

Hmmm, at 5'6", even when I raise my eyebrows 1/2" at the recent joke, I need to put on my wife's 3" spiked high heels in order to meet this criteria. Yet my fingers easily reach the end of the fingerboard for pizz. (Picture cro magnon man here.)

There must be something wrong. I know my Alcoa is a 3/4 because it snugly fits a 3/4 bag. And this DB's endpin (which is a non-adjustable peg, btw) is a shorty which is just the length of the rubber tip.

At 65 I don't expect to grow any taller, should I just get used to my wife's spikes?

 

[Don Kasper]

Yet my fingers easily reach the end of the fingerboard for pizz.

For Arco, the RH needs to be further South, well past the end of the fingerboard, FYI. The nut should be AT LEAST at the eyebrow of the player, (or higher), or the RH & bow may not be able to contact the string in the Sweet Spot. IME.

As to your footwear choices, I have Zero (recent) experience...you are on your own.
Thank You.

 

[Steve Freides]

@dhergert, a picture is worth 100 TB posts.

-S-

 

[Don Hergert]

@dhergert, a picture is worth 100 TB posts.

-S-

Hmmm, I'd have to open up the spikes with a hack saw. My wife would not be pleased, and I suspect all our church gigs would be cancelled. Absolutely no pictures.

For Arco, the RH needs to be further South, well past the end of the fingerboard, FYI.

This is just about how/where my hand and frog land naturally, about half way between the bridge and end of the fingerboard, where the tone and volume seem to be the best... Perhaps another cro magnon evidence?

 

[Bass Momma]

OK, here are some photos... The idea was to show me next to the DB, where my knuckles are wrt the bridge, then me holding the DB in playing position. The endpin is extended about 2”. I know the bow angle is off in these (away from my mirror and too busy telling my pal what to photograph); my bad.

 

[damonsmith]

I would let the bass lean back even more, you will get there, you don't use that note so much. If you just step back bit in the top photo and let the bass come to you, it will be there. A bass with slopped shoulders or a bit smaller body might things to look for in a next bass.

 

[Bass Momma]

I would let the bass lean back even more, you will get there, you don't use that note so much. If you just step back bit in the top photo and let the bass come to you, it will be there. A bass with slopped shoulders or a bit smaller body might things to look for in a next bass.

Thanks for being gentle! I've been doing quite a bit of experimenting over the last few days..

 

[damonsmith]

Thanks for being gentle! I've been doing quite a bit of experimenting over the last few days..

Also, the pin a bit more out and the bass leaned back more might also help.