Reading music and elitism

[thepontif]

I've seen licks, bass figures, even a pseudo-Classical CCM musical that looked like an Algebra equation. Truth be told by the time I decoded all of that I was wondering why they didn't just write a real bass part!

Right on! Been there!

 

[Garmonbozia]

I totally agree with the op.

Personally, when ever there's tabs I can't take my eye off it. I find it kind of distracting. It's easy to take the short cut and just read the tabs. To me, I think the tabs encourage people not to ever learn to read. I mean it's hard to see the point in doing it if you feel you can always get away with not doing so. If the tabs weren't there, at some point you would have to buckle down and just learn to do it. For this reason, I think it would be better to do away with the tabliture. I could be wrong I guess, but I think there's a larger educational purpose in doing away with it.

 

[Steve]

stop with this nonsense about reading music being elitist. I'm sick of it, and it's just a lame excuse for not wanting to put in the work. You never see anyone who can read music talking about how much it costs or how elite they are, do you? Nope, only the whiners who resent people for working for it.

That's what it boils down to...not wanting to put in the work. It ain't brain surgery, folks.

+1

[Golf clap]

And..it's also about wanting someone to tell you it's ok to be lazy.

Coincidentally, I was party to a conversation last night where someone lodged the "Chet Atkins defense"

Famous interview Q&A:

"Chet, do you know theory and can you read music?"

"Yeah but not enough to do any harm."

All I could think was, "You ain't Chet".

 

[JimmyM]

Word. And LOL!

 

[thepontif]

Dennis Chambers often cites the fact that he doesn't read, but look at the gigs he's had! I contend he got them totally in SPITE of the fact he can't read because he's a BAD MF! If you are a bad MF like that, you probably don't need to read. By bad MF, I mean you have the skills to internalize and retain entire pieces of music as quickly as most would with a chart. If you're playing 3 chord metal tunes, that might not be very hard.

 

[Cabazon]

Dennis Chambers often cites the fact that he doesn't read, but look at the gigs he's had! I contend he got them totally in SPITE of the fact he can't read because he's a BAD MF! If you are a bad MF like that, you probably don't need to read. By bad MF, I mean you have the skills to internalize and retain entire pieces of music as quickly as most would with a chart. If you're playing 3 chord metal tunes, that might not be very hard.

Saying "This drummer here doesn't read" is not a good argument for "You don't need to read."

 

[thepontif]

True enough I guess. And of course, that's the OPPOSITE of what I"m saying. Just in case I wasn't clear.

 

[JimmyM]

All those as talented as Dennis, please say "aye."

<crickets>

OK, well Mike and Roy are And Mike was using him as an example of what it takes to be able to hang in a world of readers at the top of the musical genius foodchain rather than a shining example to us all. Dennis plays some difficult stuff and has to cop it quickly, a lot of times on the fly in the studio. Nobody's going to spend 4 months rehearsing with him in a basement for the hourly rate he must make

But Dennis Chambers is a special breed of people whom I refer to as "flukes." Being such a natural that you can hang in a world of highly educated jazz musicians is not going to happen for everyone. And quite honestly, neither is playing music for a hobby. Some hobbyists never learn to read and they can actually make sense out of the music they like to play. The vast majority flounder about for a couple months, have no idea how to make sense out of it all, and put their instruments under their bed. That's too bad, I think. A little time invested in making sense of it all and it could have been a whole different ballgame.

 

[Roy Vogt]

OK, one more cautionary tale (on a student's level):
A fellow guitar teacher needed some bassists for her student showcase and asked me for referrals (these are all High School aged players). One of my students had to bail and referred another High School aged bassist to cover her set.
He showed up for rehearsal and proudly informed my friend that he was self-taught. He did have fast hands, but didn't know where the notes were on his neck or what their names were. He didn't know chord shapes or anything but how to read TAB and imitate. When they needed to transpose a tune he couldn't, because all he knew how to do was play where the TAB told him to. It was a really rough set according to my teacher friend.
Ironically, I had referred several other players to cover the set. They didn't have all the "flash" of this player but because they had their fundamentals covered they could learn and practice the tunes in the keys required and did a fine job. My guitar teacher friend referred this young bassist to me. I sincerely hope he calls. This is so easy to remedy it's a shame to not learn the basics and get on with making Music.

 

[onosson]

FAnother post says it's easier to say Ab than 4th fret. What does this have to do with reading?

I think that was me, although that's not exactly what I said - I said that I could find "A flat" more quickly than if someone said "A string, 11th fret". I was trying to make the point that, since I originally learned note names rather than fret positions, sightreading for bass or guitar is easier than Tab because I think in terms of notes and not frets. I also made the point that someone who learned frets and not notes might have the opposite experience.

 

[Spaldo]

i don't disagree with tab notation.

i just choose to never use it.

 

[Phil Smith]

Discussing drummers that don't read I think is irrelevant. Trot out a bassist that doesn't read that works in multiple genres.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Those that make it without reading are usually those playing thier own music, not looking to be employed to play others music. As for drummers I remember seeing a programme where the MD wanted Phil Collins, so they sent the scores to him in Switzerland where he lives, he go a session drummer to read, play and record the parts, them he learned what was recorded. Now if the Drummer took a day to record the parts and Phil took a few weeks to learn them, then the value of reading is obvious to the player looking to get on in a pro reading situation....star quality or luck have a big factor, but most in that situation are so in spite of there lack of skills, not because of them.

 

[coyote1]

Disagree. I made my living as a drummer for a decade. I was not a dazzling soloist! But the reason I was able to make a living doing it was because I could read the music. I would know what to play because, even though there were no "drum notes" there, I could see what was coming and play something appropriate. And I could sing spontaneous harmonies.

I still do pit orchestra gigs that demand these things a few times a year. They know I can come in and, with no rehearsal but a mere five-minute pre-show conversation, deliver a solid enough performance to let the actors and singers shine in front of some hundreds of people. If I could not read music, there's no way I could do that.

Discussing drummers that don't read I think is irrelevant.

 

[JimmyM]

Discussing drummers that don't read I think is irrelevant. Trot out a bassist that doesn't read that works in multiple genres.

Drummers have to be able to read in that environment, too. Just because they don't play notes doesn't mean that picking up a complicated song written in alternating bars of 5/4 and 4/4 is going to come easily to them without a chart to follow. Drummer or not, that's pretty impressive to be able to hang in that world and not be able to read. But I'll bet he doesn't get many jingle sessions

 

[Phil Smith]

Drummers have to be able to read in that environment, too. Just because they don't play notes doesn't mean that picking up a complicated song written in alternating bars of 5/4 and 4/4 is going to come easily to them without a chart to follow. Drummer or not, that's pretty impressive to be able to hang in that world and not be able to read. But I'll bet he doesn't get many jingle sessions

Like I said, trot out the bassist equivalent of Dennis Chambers.

 

[wrench45us]

I played drums from age 10 through high school marching and concert band and a garage band in the neighoborhod that occasionally got a paying gigm but played out regularly.
The marching band played withouyt music (after persumably memorizing the piece) so the drum corps and everyone else in the band got good at memorizing music. This meant reading the piece a few times and playing it a lot. So reading skills weren't really developed. I think its proably easiest of all instruments to work as a drummer without reading.
But along come college and a music major friend (percussionist) needed an extra hand in that section and I had to confess I couldn't really read. Things likely would have taken soem interesting turns had I had that skill in my pocket.

 

[mbeall]

Like I said, trot out the bassist equivalent of Dennis Chambers.

Dennis is an anomaly. I suspect you will not find that many other drummers that play as well as him and gigs at his level that do not read. He is not the norm. Why would anyone not want to read? Being a non reading musician is like being an illiterate poet, it's not that you can't do it, it just makes everything harder.

 

[dustinfennessey]

I'm a big fan of not caring what anyone else does. If you read music that's cool. If you don't read music that's cool. I've seen monsters that can read and seen monsters that can't read.

It's the extremists on both sides that make things the suck.

 

[carl h.]

Yep, it doesn't really matter. But the big paying gigs generally call readers up.