Reading music and elitism

[BassinCT]

If TAB=hobbyist and enthusiast and that's what you are, there's no harm in staying in your comfort zone. Just know that you'll be cutting yourself off from a lot of the World's Great Music at worst and relying on someone else's opinion of where to play the notes on your bass at best. There are a lot of ways to learn how to imitate that didn't exist even 10 years ago (Youtube, etc.) but to take it to the next level studying reading and theory is what will open a lot of doors really fast.

+1
Echoing what Roy said- it will open doors if you know the major forms of communication in music, whether in standard notation or in the numbers. But if you are going to be doing one kind of gig for the rest of your life and you are content with that, then there it is.

 

[skb5string]

You benefitted from reading immensely even if you never use it anymore. It isn't all about sticking a sheet of music under your nose and being able to sight read it. It's about learning chord structure, it's about learning the names of the notes you're playing, it's also about understanding what's going on with music at a higher level than you had before, which I'm sure happened with you. If you never read another sheet of music again in your life, you benefitted from it.

Can I get an AMEN! in here!!

 

[wideload]

No different than providing Spanish (or other) language translations. An additional language just increases the reach of your message.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Then you have Economic Reality rearing it's ugly head. Bass Player is, first and foremost, a magazine for hobbyists and enthusiasts, much like Car and Driver or Golf Digest. A majority of it's readers fall in that category, so providing everything in TAB and notation is a smart idea from that perspective.
I was the transcriptionist for the Bass Extremes book and CD set. I argued that anyone who was going to seriously attempt to play Victor Wooten and Steve Bailey's parts would be way beyond TAB, and the counter was that TAB increased the sales of a product by at least 40%.
So, when I did Teach Me Bass Guitar I included TAB, a virtual fretboard and notation-and then presented a lesson showing how to read and organize the notes on the fingerboard without TAB to hopefully lead the students into the world of notation alone.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I played more music that I never heard before than music that I had the time to decipher while listen countless times to it.

But I think the thing is rock/pop/funk and other mainstream music always been learned by ear alone and no one ever wrote anything. While Jazz and Classical music is passed to others by standart notation.

 

[bushwhacker]

I am not sure that for everyone this is an either/or scenario. I know how to read music, but I am slower at it, as it is not my profession. It clarifies many things that tab never could. I respect those who read music as fluently as reading this message. That said, when I am learning a new song I read the notation, and glance at the tab. As Roy said, I am a hobbyest and enthusiast, but that does not restrict me to TAB, but being honest it speeds up my learning, when time for music is very limited.
What I don't understand is why would anyone care if both TAB and Notation are in BP? No one is forcing you to peek at the TAB, and like Gutenburg it brings more knowledge to more people, and at least I would think their TAB would be more accurate than most internet TABS. In the ideal world you who advocate for only notation are correct, it is the best. In a world with so many competitors for our time and skills , TAB brings more music to more people- even if it is imperfect.

 

[puddin tame]

That's where you're wrong. Only people who never learned to read think that. What is tedious about the whole world of music opening up to you in a way you never dreamed of? The benefits start immediately, too. But unless you've done it, I can't even begin to explain it to you.


That's fine. But if your goal is to make a living from playing music, you can either be a rock star, which happens less to people than winning Lotto and getting hit by lightning on the same day, or you can make yourself available for the reading gigs, which pay considerably better than the non-reading gigs on the average.

I have done it... i'm the guy who is saying I could sight read pretty well when I was young but have long let me skills degrade.

I work a 9 to 5 so I don't have to worry about which gigs are going to put food on the table, I just rock out!

The thing is rather than have this wide notated musical world opened up i'd rather just use a combination of my ear, improvisational skill, my ear, and tabs. I had years of private jazz lessons, been there and done that. I'm not a totally clueless bassist here!

 

[Kamael83]

If there would be no Tabs in the magazines / books people would have to learn how to read and whining would be over

I can`t read musical notation (not yet) but i`m learning it now while going through Ed Friedland bass method books.
I don`t disregard tabs as they helped me a lot the moment i picked my bass for the first time...they kept me going straight away and that made me very happy

Mistakes that are common in tabs also made me think and work on fixing them....you all probably saw tab written on one string (E string usually) jumping bewteen 1st and 9th fret ...that made me learn about hand position and notes that are under my fingers in that position as I found too difficult and too stupid to play songs on one string....

Last thing... I hate when book / magazine contains musical notation and tab under it...Simply because human nature is lazy...I will glance at that damn tab either I want to or not hahah.

 

[puddin tame]

Then you have Economic Reality rearing it's ugly head. Bass Player is, first and foremost, a magazine for hobbyists and enthusiasts, much like Car and Driver or Golf Digest. A majority of it's readers fall in that category, so providing everything in TAB and notation is a smart idea from that perspective.
I was the transcriptionist for the Bass Extremes book and CD set. I argued that anyone who was going to seriously attempt to play Victor Wooten and Steve Bailey's parts would be way beyond TAB, and the counter was that TAB increased the sales of a product by at least 40%.
So, when I did Teach Me Bass Guitar I included TAB, a virtual fretboard and notation-and then presented a lesson showing how to read and organize the notes on the fingerboard without TAB to hopefully lead the students into the world of notation alone.

I've learned a few wooten tunes off tabs


There seems to be this idea amongst you older guys who are well-read in the ways of notation that those who don't read are also musically stunted in almost every other way

 

[colcifer]

Why can't you just write the notes out, then let the player decide how he or she's going to play it?

Writing out certain things that are unique to the instrument are nothing new in notation. Violins always have bowing instructions along with the notes, we as bass players might get a little instruction from time to time as well. I've seem "T" and "P" indicating a slap part, or a wiggly line to indicate a heavy vibrato, or things like that. I suspect it's the same in steel guitar world as well. I'm sure they have a way of writing out notation that can instruct them exactly what to do with the pedals and the bar. And I'm sure most good pedal steel players don't need the music telling them where to bar or what pedals to push, either...when I give someone a sheet of music, I figure they know how to play their instrument already

A great steel player could pull it off but bear in mind, the things are as complex as a small airplane. While you still have to deal with the drawbacks, TAB is the better medium in this instance.

Here's a "simple" major scale: .

 

[JimmyM]

Well if you read music, puddin, what are you worried about?

 

[dhsierra1]

the only way I can really learn a tune is by standard notation. When I read tab I don't get the tune's structure. I've played long enough that I can figure out the positioning. You learn and understand tunes faster and better once you know how they're harmonically structured.

When I started learning cello I had to learn not one but two different clefs: B and C. And the instrument is tuned in 5ths. I guess tab would have made it easy at first, but then I would have been out to sea w/learning where all those notes really go because everything in the world of cello uses standard notation. You wanna learn the solo Bach pieces by ear? Maybe if you're Yo Yo Ma.....

That said I appreciate things like the Nashville system and I use that in bands where my bandmates don't read and I have to get the idea across in a reasonable amount of time during a rehearsal. Then I become the de facto music director of the band and not "just the bassist" Doesn't make me elite or anything, it just helps everyone get rocking that much faster and better.

Reading music isn't hard, give it 10-15 minutes a day and in just a couple of months (or even less) you'll be saying "gee, that was easy, why didn't I do this sooner?". As it's been said before, it ain't rocket surgery.

Pardon the soap box rant, just my 0.02

 

[miltslackford]

You learn and understand tunes faster and better once you know how they're harmonically structured.

I have a question about this because I don't understand. In what way do you feel reading gives you an impression of the harmony of a piece?

When I read I just play the notes I don't really notice much about what the chords are.

I had this problem with piano. I got to play some really nice music on piano but my piano teacher never taught me anything about chord changes or harmony so it was all just dots to me. I got to grade 6 and could play lots of piece but ask me what the chords were and I couldn't tell you anything.

If I play a bassline from notation I'd be playing single notes. How do you translate this into an understanding of harmony?

I've never understood this point from people who bang on about why reading is better. I've found for me learning to play from chord charts and learning to convert charts into roman numerals has given me those skills much easier but not reading.

I'm interested to know how reading has given you a window into harmony precisely - like what exactly do you notice or think while your reading other than 'G, F sharp, D' etc?

 

[Lee H]

SO WHAT, if you can read music, or just TAB. Has it really made so much difference in the course of your life, that you have to care what someone else does?
I play because I like playing. I don't really care why anyone else plays, and I definitely do not care how they read what they play.

 

[JimmyM]

Your piano teacher should have given you instruction on chord theory as well. I don't even think about it when I read, quite honestly. Mostly because I'm given the chords already but sometimes I'm not, and I just use my ears and apply what I know about chord theory, and I can figure it out. But if hasn't been explained to you, then no wonder you don't think in those terms when you play.

 

[JimmyM]

SO WHAT, if you can read music, or just TAB. Has it really made so much difference in the course of your life, that you have to care what someone else does?
I play because I like playing. I don't really care why anyone else plays, and I definitely do not care how they read what they play.

Hey bro, choose whatever path you think is right for you. I'm just pointing out the sheer fallacy of thinking it's elitist or only available to those who pay big tuitions at music schools.

 

[dhsierra1]

I have a question about this because I don't understand. In what way do you feel reading gives you an impression of the harmony of a piece?

When I read I just play the notes I don't really notice much about what the chords are.

I had this problem with piano. I got to play some really nice music on piano but my piano teacher never taught me anything about chord changes or harmony so it was all just dots to me. I got to grade 6 and could play lots of piece but ask me what the chords were and I couldn't tell you anything.

If I play a bassline from notation I'd be playing single notes. How do you translate this into an understanding of harmony?

I've never understood this point from people who bang on about why reading is better. I've found for me learning to play from chord charts and learning to convert charts into roman numerals has given me those skills much easier but not reading.

I'm interested to know how reading has given you a window into harmony precisely - like what exactly do you notice or think while your reading other than 'G, F sharp, D' etc?

to put it in perhaps overly simplistic terms, for the bass line, the line will generally outline the chord, you don't play the chord in bass so you sort of "spread it out" underneath. You can hear those chord changes when the series of notes changes. This is true w/a melody line as well. There are of course things like grace notes etc that deviate from the chord but nonetheless you'll hear it.

A good way to see this is get a transcription of a simpler jazz piece, say "Autumn Leaves" that includes a written out bass line from an established player as well as the chords. The Carol Kaye books are excellent and give a lot of insight into this. There's others out there, too, but that's how I started on bass.

Someone who teaches everyday like Roy can explain it better.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I've learned a few wooten tunes off tabs


There seems to be this idea amongst you older guys who are well-read in the ways of notation that those who don't read are also musically stunted in almost every other way

Not at all-I have a lot of students who come to me with great dexterity, musicality and ability who can't read. My argument to them is why not add yet another skill set to what you can already do? Imagine being able to do anything that Vic or Hadrien can do and then be able to read virtually anything! What do you think your chances of gigging and making a living as a bassist (if that's what you want to do) would be?
One of my students early on who was in that category was Ric Fierrabracci. I had him as a Freshman Bass Major at the University of Miami when I was Don Coffman's Grad Assistant. He could play every bit as fast as he can now at 18, but couldn't read. I explained that concept of adding knowledge to his amazing "Street" skills and he got it. The next time I saw him he was playing bass with Yanni at the Acropolis. Then I ran into him in LA playing with Frank Gambale and killing it. The next I heard he was playing with Chick Corea's Electric Band and then playing for a decade with Sir Tom Jones. He's a good example of what chops+knowledge can yield. If you get a chance, check out Mike Pope (the pontiff on TB). He's another example.
I was a Rocker starting out who taught myself to read-not a Classical Guy or a Jazzer. It has really, really helped. I don't want to dis anyone for not knowing how to do it but I do want to encourage everyone to try to learn.

 

[hdracer]

I have done it... i'm the guy who is saying I could sight read pretty well when I was young but have long let me skills degrade.

I work a 9 to 5 so I don't have to worry about which gigs are going to put food on the table, I just rock out!

The thing is rather than have this wide notated musical world opened up i'd rather just use a combination of my ear, improvisational skill, my ear, and tabs. I had years of private jazz lessons, been there and done that. I'm not a totally clueless bassist here!

You lost me on this. How do you forget? If you didn't pick up a book for ten years would you forget how to read?

I learned to read music when I was a young child (my mother was a music teacher). I got out of music when I was in my late teens and picked up the bass when I was 52. I never played any instrument that was in the bass clef. I can read music better then I can play it.

 

[bass12]

SO WHAT, if you can read music, or just TAB. Has it really made so much difference in the course of your life, that you have to care what someone else does?
I play because I like playing. I don't really care why anyone else plays, and I definitely do not care how they read what they play.

So much for imparting wisdom...