Reading music and elitism

[JimmyM]

Many of the replies in this thread are pretty elitist. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing. It's kind of amusing to read posts claiming they aren't elitist but are somehow much cooler because they can read. For the record I can read. Read or don't, but looking down on people who don't or don't want to learn is elitist. That's pretty much the definition of elitism. Use your reading ability to read the dictionary lol

Hey, if you choose to look at it that way, that's on you. But it's absolutely 100% false. If this was something that was out of reach of your average person without a lot of money, maybe you'd have something. But it isn't, and you don't. All it takes is a little work and an ability to apply yourself. That in no way, shape, or form is elitist.

 

[Picktastic]

Hey, if you choose to look at it that way, that's on you. But it's absolutely 100% false. If this was something that was out of reach of your average person without a lot of money, maybe you'd have something. But it isn't, and you don't. All it takes is a little work and an ability to apply yourself. That in no way, shape, or form is elitist.

I don't think elitism in certain situations is a negative. I agree it's not out of reach ofthe average person and they should learn it if they want to become the best musician they can, but I think being able to read makes you a better musician- and better gets at the idea of elite. I guess maybe we just disagree on the definition of elitism?

 

[Roy Vogt]

There's good material available from
Jazz & Latin Music Real Books and Method Books | Sher Music Co.
The Official Carol Kaye Web Site
Jamey Aebersold Jazz (The Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid is good)
BassBooks.com - Your Ultimate Online Resource of Educational Material for the Bass Guitar - (The Bruce Gertz books seem really good, and his 22 Melodic Studies are a challenge for anyone) Also the Rich Appleman Reading Contemporary Electric Bass book is good as is Chord Studies for Electric Bass by Rich and Joseph Viola, Jim Stinnett has written some good things.
J. S. Bach, 6 Suites for Cello (Trombone edition)-works for 4 string electric bass really well.
The University of Miami Electric Bass Series Vols.1-5 by Jim Progris and Lucas Drew are good as well, if you can find them. So is Dance Band Reading and Interpretation by Alan Raph and Standing in the Shadows of Motown.
Just a few ideas-I'm with Jimmy M here. Start in any direction, take your time, work with a good teacher who will teach you to read and you'll get there. It's a process, remember.

 

[Stumbo]

The Beatles and many others never learned to sight read or use tabs. They did okay.

If you want to learn tab or SN or hand signals or whatever, fine with me. If your music sounds good, I really don't care how you prepared yourself.

 

[puddin tame]

Hey, if you choose to look at it that way, that's on you. But it's absolutely 100% false. If this was something that was out of reach of your average person without a lot of money, maybe you'd have something. But it isn't, and you don't. All it takes is a little work and an ability to apply yourself. That in no way, shape, or form is elitist.

So does just about everything else worthwhile in life, there comes a point where i've got to pick and choose what to put all that work into

 

[AndreBas]

Tabs don't even show what fingers to use on those frets. Tabs usually don't make my students look for alternative fingerings. My teachers used pencils to write down positions with Roman numerals and fingers with Arabic numerals, right above the notes. I do the same with my students.

 

[onosson]

Learning notation is no harder than tab, not at all. It depends where you start from. If you start out on bass or guitar learning by fret position, then I could see tab being easier. I never did that - I learned note names and where they were. Fret positions mean nothing to me because I don't think in terms of frets, I think in terms of notes/pitches. Notation is far easier for me to read, because it speaks directly to the note being played. Tab is slower for me, because I have to stop and think about where that fret is.

As to the definition of "elite" - I would characterize that to be a size-limited, specialized group which there is limited access to. There is no limit to the size of the group of "people who can read music", and it is readily accessible, certainly to anyone who can afford any instrument more expensive than a harmonica. Specialized, yes - but that goes for anyone playing any instrument at all.

 

[cheapimitation]

The Beatles and many others never learned to sight read or use tabs. They did okay.

If you want to learn tab or SN or hand signals or whatever, fine with me. If your music sounds good, I really don't care how you prepared yourself.

It should be noted that much of the glorious sound of The Beatles was due to producer George Martin and his (written) arrangements.

 

[puddin tame]

Everyone keeps talking about all the new gigs you can get if you can read but not everyone wants those gigs. I decided a few years ago that I didn't, i've got enough on my plate musically and otherwise as is.

I do not rely on music for my income. Music does nothing but drain my income....


....*huddles bass gear* preeecciousssss,,,,

 

[Jazzdogg]

90% of the tab's on the net are wrong.
Most are written by people that have no clue. Wrong key wrong notes in a phrase and wrong fingering patters.
If you have a good enough ear to hear where the tab is wrong and correct it, they can be helpful.

The worst thing is learning a song wrong and then having to relearn it.

I don't like to learn anything by rote; I prefer to understand why I'm doing something, and like to have several options to accomplish my goals.

To me, standard notation is like a detailed topographical street map that also provides an aerial photograph showing known speed traps, and points out the kinds of shortcuts only the locals know about. You can not only find your way from point A to point B, but you can find your way around bad traffic and construction detours, and feel comfortable taking the scenic route if you're so inclined.

Tab, on the other hand, is more akin to the kind of very limited, very specific, directions you'd give to someone incapable of relating the environment to the map for themselves when driving a rental car in a foreign city; as they drive away, you pray they don't make a wrong turn before they get to their final destination.

IMHO, IME, YMMV, M.O.U.S.E....

 

[winstonthecat]

From the hobbiest/weekend warrior perspective who plays in once-a-month type cover bands, I turn to tabs because it is the quickest way to learn a song. I can read music, but very slowly, and I would do more reading if there were more standard notation for the type of rock, pop, blues songs I play.

If I'm learning a song, I pull up a tab, listen to the song, figure out the timing, correct the inevitable mistakes in the tab, and I'm set. I know enough about chord structure and harmony to figure things out where needed.

Since I have a full time job, family and other interests outside of music, so I look for the fastest way to learn a song. There are way more tabs out there than written music. Am I lazy? I don't think so, just prioritizing the amount of time I put into this interest.

If I were a professional musician, my reading skills would be better, since my career would depend on it.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I played more music that I never heard before than music that I had the time to decipher while listen countless times to it.

But I think the thing is rock/pop/funk and other mainstream music always been learned by ear alone and no one ever wrote anything. While Jazz and Classical music is passed to others by standart notation.

You're free to think that. But, it's not true. You're perpetuating a false perception that says more about the power of pop myths to disseminate misinformation than it does about the working practices of professional musicians in many popular genres.

 

[Roy Vogt]

The Beatles and many others never learned to sight read or use tabs. They did okay.

If you want to learn tab or SN or hand signals or whatever, fine with me. If your music sounds good, I really don't care how you prepared yourself.

The Beatles, the Stones, the Who, the Doors, the Sex Pistols, Van Halen were all winners of the Powerball Lottery of the Music Biz. When you consider how short the career of a Band with a Major Label Deal can be (in my case it was 18 months or so), it can be an all or nothing deal if you're planning on a long term career.
I went to a clinic presented by the great studio guitarist Tommy Tedesco years back. He compared the studio guitarist career to being an NFL player. You have a certain number of kids that play Pee Wee or Pop Warner football. In Junior High some of those kids get cut, more in Senior High. Fewer play College Ball, a very few make it to Combine and fewer still survive that Roster trimming at the first of the Season. Pro Music work is a lot like that if all you're going to do is try to win the Rock Band Lottery. Once again if you think of how long a Music Career can be and how short a band like The Beatles were around, having a great and varied skill set is a good idea.
Finally, when a band like the Stones lost one of their boyhood chums Bill Wyman, they didn't replace him with a guy who played every Stones song note for note in a tribute band, they hired Daryl Jones, who had played with Miles Davis, Steps Ahead, Herbie Hancock and Sting. When John Entwistle died (RIP John, one of the greatest Rock Bassists ever!), the Who hired a trained session player, Pino Palladino, to cover the gig. So did John Mayer, Herbie Hancock, Paul Young and Raphael Saadiq. It never hurts to have as many tools as you can if you're doing this for Real.
Loved the Marcus Miller video! Reposting it!
James Ross @ (Bassist Extraordinaire) - Marcus Miller - "Know Your Craft" - Jross-tv - YouTube

 

[JimmyM]

I think it's very important to remind people that they are not the Beatles and you shouldn't compare your path with theirs because it ain't happening, no way no how. I would also remind people that even though they didn't read, they were voracious learners who studied chord theory in depth and incorporated everything they learned into their music.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Everyone keeps talking about all the new gigs you can get if you can read but not everyone wants those gigs. I decided a few years ago that I didn't, i've got enough on my plate musically and otherwise as is.

I do not rely on music for my income. Music does nothing but drain my income....


....*huddles bass gear* preeecciousssss,,,,

Then you would be in the "hobbyist/enthusiast" category and there's nothing wrong with that at all!

 

[bushwhacker]

This is becoming a discussion betwenn a husband and wife who are not hearing each other. The Professionals all say, and many hobbiests are agreeing, is that notation is the top, it's the coloseum, while for many others, who love music, but have other professional duties that limit the time we can devote to the muse, tabs are a shortcut. We know how to read music, BUT IT ISN'T OUR MAIN JOB. I am slower at reading notation, because I spend many hours a day doing other things that are very important. Why can't we let both exist side by side, and say if you want your paychecks to come from music, it is better to learn notation fluidly, but if you love to play as a soul satisfier, it is OK to peek at tabs while still learning to read music. Why can't we all get along?

 

[puddin tame]

Then you would be in the "hobbyist/enthusiast" category and there's nothing wrong with that at all!

I prefer the term "original rock"

 

[seanm]

You lost me on this. How do you forget? If you didn't pick up a book for ten years would you forget how to read?

I learned to read music when I was a young child (my mother was a music teacher). I got out of music when I was in my late teens and picked up the bass when I was 52. I never played any instrument that was in the bass clef. I can read music better then I can play it.

I have a poor memory. I used to tutor amateur musicians who could read but needed help with trickier lines. While I can still read, I have forgotten the details It comes from not reading for decades, but not as long you... I am jealous you picked it back up so fast.

I use a tab-like structure to lay out songs so I don't have to remember where I played the song. I find it works better than standard notation because I rarely forget the time but I do forget the notes.

Realistically, I will never be given any written notation of any type. I am really happy if I am told what key a song will be in.

But I do agree with JimmyM; I learned to read standard notation in high school. It cost me nothing. You cannot argue that cost is a reason not to have learned standard notation.

 

[JimmyM]

This is becoming a discussion betwenn a husband and wife who are not hearing each other. The Professionals all say, and many hobbiests are agreeing, is that notation is the top, it's the coloseum, while for many others, who love music, but have other professional duties that limit the time we can devote to the muse, tabs are a shortcut. We know how to read music, BUT IT ISN'T OUR MAIN JOB. I am slower at reading notation, because I spend many hours a day doing other things that are very important. Why can't we let both exist side by side, and say if you want your paychecks to come from music, it is better to learn notation fluidly, but if you love to play as a soul satisfier, it is OK to peek at tabs while still learning to read music. Why can't we all get along?

I didn't call them elitists or accuse them of buying their way into knowing how to play music.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I prefer the term "original rock"

So you're doing a band project for a career possibility, while using a Day Gig to keep the bills paid? A smart and honorable strategy if you're going that route-not unlike the stockbroker who goes home every day and works on his novel.