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Don't agree with that.
Same album, year after year, with no personal growth in content or musicianship = selling out.
Tell me what you would call it?
Like Henry Rollins said:
If you make the record like the label told you to make it, that's selling out.
That was the work of a fallen angel
If you make the record like the label told you to make it, that's selling out.
That was the work of a fallen angel
I see selling out in a few ways. For example, if the band have always played Fender basses, or have an interest in them, and then go on to be a Fender Endorsee, then to me, that's not selling out, that's a happy win for everyone.
On the other hand, I see joining a company that the band has no previous affiliation with, and say they always loved BLANK brand stuff, just to make money, then to me, that's selling out.
Some bands are seen as sellouts for just changing their style a bit. I wouldn't say so, it might be, but if a band wants to branch out and experiment with a new style, that's their choice.
If I was to sum it up from my prespective, I would say that bands who do things against their true nature or opinions, and will do anything and everything to be popular, or to make money, then I say they are sellouts.
On the other hand, I see joining a company that the band has no previous affiliation with, and say they always loved BLANK brand stuff, just to make money, then to me, that's selling out.
Some bands are seen as sellouts for just changing their style a bit. I wouldn't say so, it might be, but if a band wants to branch out and experiment with a new style, that's their choice.
If I was to sum it up from my prespective, I would say that bands who do things against their true nature or opinions, and will do anything and everything to be popular, or to make money, then I say they are sellouts.
Different things, but they can conflate disastrously. I once played bass in a 'hard core' Rock & Roll cover trio (Git/Bass/Drums) in the mid 70s', living in Puerto Rico on top of a mountain in a rainforest. We would come down out of the clouds to play Fri/Sat nites for $2-400/nite depending on whether it was in a beach dive bar or a club in San Juan. The rest of the time, between practices and hustling gigs, we would explore the island, snorkel in gin clear waters and generally live the idyllic life.
My wife (at the time) got a job at a super duper upscale resort as an assistant to the food & bev manager. When he heard who we were he offered us a sweet gig, 8-12 Wed-Sat for $3K a week. Steady too, I wouldn't be constantly hustling for the next gig. Thing was, it was for one of their lounges, required having a female front singer and play a few standards with our normal set list.
When I proposed to the other players we take the gig you would have thought I'd asked them to sell their souls. 'Female singer?!?! Standards?!?! Like what, Moon River!?!? We're a real Rock & Roll band! We'd be compromising our integrity! We'd be selling out!'. And? We're not just doing this for funs & giggles you know. It's steady, pays BIG bucks and we're not loading out at 2-3AM in the morning. Not to mention the free gourmet food/drinks.
Long story short, it caused such a riff it broke the band up and we went our separate ways. So long idyllic tropical paradise. Because they were in a 'Real Band' and didn't want to 'Sell out'
I spent a good 30 years trying to sell out. I never quite got enough Buy In.
Whatever happened, there sure is a lot more soul in Tres Hombres than Eliminator!
I DO think there's such a thing as selling out, but the phrase gets way overused, basically out of jealousy of others' success.
IF a band (or any kind of artist) commits themselves to some kind of aesthetic or moral principle, and then violates that principle for the sake of making money, you can validly say they sold out.
But making money alone doesn't count - that's just being successful. If the band's purpose in the first place was to entertain an audience and become a successful business, you aren't "selling out" if you go ahead and meet those goals. You also aren't "selling out" if you happen to become commercially successful while still sticking to your principles.
Changing their principle isn't necessarily selling out either, if they do so because they have moved on to different ideas and aesthetics. That's just growth.
As for what "real" metal is... I really couldn't care less. It's just a label. Slap it on whatever you see fit. Not worth arguing over.
IF a band (or any kind of artist) commits themselves to some kind of aesthetic or moral principle, and then violates that principle for the sake of making money, you can validly say they sold out.
But making money alone doesn't count - that's just being successful. If the band's purpose in the first place was to entertain an audience and become a successful business, you aren't "selling out" if you go ahead and meet those goals. You also aren't "selling out" if you happen to become commercially successful while still sticking to your principles.
Changing their principle isn't necessarily selling out either, if they do so because they have moved on to different ideas and aesthetics. That's just growth.
As for what "real" metal is... I really couldn't care less. It's just a label. Slap it on whatever you see fit. Not worth arguing over.
Selling out is when a band you like plays music you no longer like and/or becomes popular enough that ticket prices go up.
Anyone that has ever moved from a high school side job to a real career has "sold out".
I tend to ignore people that criticize bands for selling out. I like bands that grow and change. If a band starts doing stuff I don't like, there are plenty of other bands to listen to.
Anyone that has ever moved from a high school side job to a real career has "sold out".
I tend to ignore people that criticize bands for selling out. I like bands that grow and change. If a band starts doing stuff I don't like, there are plenty of other bands to listen to.
The term 'selling out' is one of the dumbest statements ever! I've always said 'Is your goal in the music business to stay broke?' Make whatever music you like. It's 'YOUR' creativity. As long as it's true and you love it.
As much as I can say I've gotten over the pretense of "real" music, I will say that I've always found more "budget-produced" music to feel more genuine at times, at least with metal and punk - I much prefer most of bathory's discography to most of what Glenn Fricker produces for said reason, though I respect Fricker for being very good at what he does. Maybe budget produced is a bad term to use, maybe "poorly recorded" is better? Honestly I wish I could explain it. But I no longer think of it as selling out our being commercial so much as maybe being more approachable.
Thats the closest definition i would agree with but even then the whole concept is kinda stupid. "Selling out" always comes with a negative connotation but its stupid to look down on someone because they wanna make money.
Like sacrificing your art for your or your families well being is a bad thing? And are you even sacrificing your art?
Someone sells out by putting out a record that will get them money...its not like that artist cant also write the music they want on the side. The only thing you're sacrificing by "selling out" is your ego/image, which is something that leads to poopy music anyway.
Fans just like putting musicians on a pedestal and then act all disappointed when the music they make doesnt fit their agenda.
How much would they have to pay you to continue working if you were burned out?
You are not enjoying playing, you are looking to collect a check.............and that results in what?
Say it with me.........selling out.
Real easy for him to say, waltzing into the perfect high-selling indie situation with Black Flag and parlaying that into a solo career where he had the leverage to demand creative control. It doesn't work like that for the vast majority of musicians making their first album on a major. When people say stuff like that, you really have to consider the source.
Exactly - I don't think "selling out" was an option for Henry Rollins. I like Black Flag & Henry's stuff, but I can't imagine him actually singing even if he wanted to!
OK, well there are a lot of acts who resented record companies telling them how to record, then they make an album that nobody likes and it kills their momentum. Next thing you know, they're out of the arenas and back into clubs and state fairs.Considering the source doesn't make it any less true
And even with Henry Rollins, what about the musicians who are doing what Henry wants them to do on his albums? Are they sellouts for accepting Henry's word as gospel for a paycheck? One could argue that they are. So where does that leave Henry, surrounding himself with a bunch of damn sellouts?
Be real careful using the "S" word. It's a real fine line between the sides.
