"Real" bands and "selling out" your thoughts...

[blubass]

How do you define selling out? What the hell is a "real" metal band, or real (pick a genre) band for that matter?

My questions stem from reading through a troll's comments that repeatedly contradicted himself in a Facebook diatribe on a post regarding the band, Five Finger Death Punch. It was worth a laugh, but as I look back on it MANY people I know that grew up listening to metal during the 1980's have strong feelings about what real metal is.

 

[bholder]

"They don't give a damn about any trumpet-playin' band, it ain't what they call Rock'n'Roll." Some things never change...

 

[Nev375]

A "REAL" band is any band favored by an insecure and/or narrow-minded musician who just can't understand why everyone likes stuff that he doesn't.

Selling out is what happens when a "REAL" band suddenly does something different from their earlier career. (i.e. in metal this could mean any of the following things: Using more complicated chords or rhythms, turning off their distortion pedal for once, learning to actually sing a melody, playing slower than 150 BPM, replacing any member, etc...) Sometimes this results in more album sales (hence the term), but that's not actually a requirement.

Side note: When using these terms it's very important that you do so with the air of confidence that it's an obvious fact to everyone on the planet except the person(s) being spoken to so that they will feel dumb and thus admire you for your keen understanding of music.

 

[mambo4]

I've Played with musicians who felt the distinction between "real" bands/music and the opposite (whatever that is) was super important.
They will talk at length about what makes music real vs fake, and happily categorize bands, musicians (and people) as one or the other.

I concluded this:
People crave the sense of authenticity in the music/art they experience.
If it touches them emotionally, they will claim it's authentic, real.
If it doesn't touch them emotionally, they claim it's not.

It's kind of a weird way of not owning one's personal opinion.
I can't just like or not like something,
My ego requires that I can perceive some external quality that others have missed.

Personally , I don't care to label music / art as real or authentic or whatever.
If it's well executed and enjoyable, that's authentic to me.

 

[Razman]

What defines a "real" musician? Is this like the motorcycle argument about Harley's being the only "real" motorcycles and all other brands are not really "real"?



Raz

 

[mrcbass]

S

How do you define selling out? What the hell is a "real" metal band, or real (pick a genre) band for that matter?

My questions stem from reading through a troll's comments that repeatedly contradicted himself in a Facebook diatribe on a post regarding the band, Five Finger Death Punch. It was worth a laugh, but as I look back on it MANY people I know that grew up listening to metal during the 1980's have strong feelings about what real metal is.

"Selling out" and "Real XXX" bands are two different things IMO.

"Selling Out" = Modifying your art form just for the sake of money (in most cases - could be for other personal gain). It is generally used in the context of well known musicians cashing in on a commercial opportunity to exploit their music.

But, to some degree, we all do it every day. How many times have we all said "if I have to play XYZ one more time, I'll hang myself (yet we play it the next time it comes round in the set list)? That is a form of selling out. To a lesser degree, those of us who maintain full time non-musician jobs (but would rather be full time gigging) have sold out as well - we opted for food and shelter vs. being a dependent musician.

"Real XXX Band" = A band that conforms to hard core followers of a style. You'll get just about as many opinions about a band being a "real XXX band" as there are people. I'm not into metal, but since you used that as your primary example, I'll use it as mine: "Metal" could be translated as anything loud and aggressive to someone, but it could mean "big hair, spandex and makeup" to another. To a musician, the definitions tend to get a little more meaningful: "sharp , crunchy, shredding guitar" but even in that circle you'll have many opinions about what is "real XXX".

My examples reminded me of an old friend who half-jokingly referred to anything produced after 1970 as "punk" music - just because a lot of the "newer" stuff didn't fit his definition of rock and roll.

I personally don't get into labels. If I like it, cool. If not then I don't play or listen to it. If I'm in a situation where the band wants to play something that just offends me, I will speak up, but generally will "sell out" if it means keeping the band happy even if it isn't a "real XXX" song.

 

[br1qbat]

The "Real XXX" bands tend to be those that a person likes, but usually aren't as "big" or "known". Since we are talking about irrational maniacs on the internet, theres A LOT of wiggle room as to who is Real/True. Metal is one example this pops up in, and punk seems to be another. Usually where theres some idea of "authenticity" and the genre being seen in the maniac's eyes as "non-mainstream"

"Selling Out" is usually then when one of above-mentioned maniac's "Real" bands makes some sort of change- musically, image, whatevs that said maniac interprets as only motivated by appealing to the "mainstream" ie: the casual music listeners, not the "true XXX FANS" like mr or ms maniac.

Good examples off the top of my head:

Metallica. No matter what they say or did or do, to a segment of metaldom, changing their image and sound from the highly technical and justice for alL to the more streamlined black album was "SELLING OUT TO THE MAN" MAN! Thus to some a band like Slayer, who they'll argue (and this is highly debatable imho) that since Slayer never 'crossed over' to the extant metallica did and never changed their sound (really?!? Really?!) that they didnt sell out. To others Slayer sold out by slowing down after reign. And on and on.

Mastodon is the other. Mainly because they got moee progressive/melodic, so obviously they sold out. I mean, why else would a musician want to change from the sound of their earliest records.

You can see how stupid this gets

 

[br1qbat]

The tldr version:

Real XXX = bands i like that most people dont know

Selling out = more people now know about one of these 'real xxx' bands due to some real or perceived change

 

[Groove Doctor]

Real music - singing good lyrics & melodies, real instruments, real talent.

Fake music - talking, dull lyrics in monotone, drum machine & repetitive 2-bar sample.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Art doesn't exist, nothing is pure because it is all about selling your "art" to people ...

So you are influanced by the fact that you have to sell your creation ...

I like a lot of music but I don't think it is "Art", far from it. It is just entertainment and cool if it makes me feel something.

So every "artist" are sellout. Just various degree of selling out.

 

[HauntedDave]

To lightheartedly answer, a band is "selling out" when they no longer are interested in being the band they once were. To me, drastic changes in musical direction are usually the quickest route to the "sold out" label being bestowed, followed by an immediate rejection of that band denouncing that they "sold out".

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

How do you define selling out? What the hell is a "real" metal band, or real (pick a genre) band for that matter?

My questions stem from reading through a troll's comments that repeatedly contradicted himself in a Facebook diatribe on a post regarding the band, Five Finger Death Punch. It was worth a laugh, but as I look back on it MANY people I know that grew up listening to metal during the 1980's have strong feelings about what real metal is.

Noticed many years/decades ago that most of those who complain are the same ones that like the exclusivity of being in a group that likes a band no one has heard of.

If a band is talented, God forbid they get widespread acclaim, then these self-appointed gurus have to "share" their band with the great unwashed, and they abhor that in a cliquish manner. Their "band's success" is "selling out" to them and they are very vocal about it.

I've always subscribed to a different standard.

When a band starts writing tunes about what a bitch it is being "them", a successful working band, then they have sold out.

After all, they managed to achieve their dreams and somehow its not enough?

 

[ERIC31]

Are these the same people that say "I'm ok...you're a poser..." in whatever "scene" they happen to be in??

Sell out. I sell out every day going to a job I'd rather not have. I'd be too happy to play music and make a lot of money!

Couldn't care less what anyone else had to say about my "street cred".

 

[singlemalt]

So there was this killing little fusion band called, Journey......instrumental music, the real deal....

 

[funkymonk13]

I feel like most of the people who spout out the "selling out" concept dont really make music anyways.
Most musicians who are true artists will like a lot of different styles and their music will change in style over time.
Fans perceive this as "selling out" when its usually just the artist exploring a new direction they're interested in. Most fans just want the same album over and over again for some reason.

I dunno about "real" metal though....thats a whole different story.

 

[jaco944]

The tldr version:

Real XXX = bands i like that most people dont know

Selling out = more people now know about one of these 'real xxx' bands due to some real or perceived change

....."and now I can no longer like or appreciate anything they do"

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Some bands weren't real from the beginning, like Stillwater (Almost Famous), Steel Dragon (Rock Star), Tenacious D, or Steel Panther...
but they still recorded some pretty great stuff

I guess that sums up how serious I am about fake bands & selling out.
Once upon a time, when I was a teenager, I thought selling out was a thing.

Then I moved over to L.A. & spent many nights in Hollyweird & seeing local & international acts & selling out just isn't something people think about.
It's basically synonymous with "making it".

I'm going to contradict myself though, because "bands" like "2 Unlimited" are true fake bands & were conceived to literally sell out.

Selling out worked pretty well for Adam Curry. He started out a D.J. in the Netherlands & somehow managed to get onto MTV as the host of "The Headbanger's Ball".

Later in life I read Johnny Ramone's book, Commando, and was shocked to realize he cared very much about the band's image, even so far as to insist Dee Dee used a pick.
That blew my mind, because when I was young we all thought Punk Rock was about the IDGAF attitude.

Henry Rollins has a vid on YT where he shares his views on "selling out".
I'd post it, but I'm pretty sure he's cursing throughout.

 

[SirMjac28]

 

[Nev375]

 

[74hc]

There is no such thing as selling out. It's really some people are jealous of another making money, or more money, and this is how they react.