uhmm, WRONG. it's different things to different folks, but there is most definitely such a thing as selling out.
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If you make your living playing music, there is no debate, a gig is a gig.
Metallica said it best: are we sellouts? Yeah, we sell out every night...
I can't stand the 'commoner vs. real musician' mindset. You know what? Its FUN to make music that a lot of people like (I'm assuming, hasn't happened to me yet lol) and there's nothing wrong with that. It's taking enjoyment from the art you create - yet from a different place than the 'real vs fake music' mindset. It's ok, it really is...
I can't stand the 'commoner vs. real musician' mindset. You know what? Its FUN to make music that a lot of people like (I'm assuming, hasn't happened to me yet lol) and there's nothing wrong with that. It's taking enjoyment from the art you create - yet from a different place than the 'real vs fake music' mindset. It's ok, it really is...
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I agree that we need to be careful using the word sell-out. I know Metallica gets slammed for being sell-outs but as my friend would say you don't have the same things to sing about when you are successful / older than when you were struggling / younger. That could be called personal growth. That said, I definitely prefer Cliff-era Metallica. On the other hand, Milli Vanilli were the poster children for sell-outs. They choose to pretend to be something they weren't for money and lied to their fans.
I love the term "real" musician. I play in a cover band were I am viewed by the singer as not being a real musician because I did not pay my dues by being a starving musician and instead have a career. His viewpoint is not that uncommon locally - people often think that because you have a career and are financially stable that you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Instead of realizing that being successful at anything takes hard work and dedication instead of expecting the universe to reward you because you feel entitled. I find this particualry entertaining since he somehow could afford a semester or two at Berkelee which cost more than my entire college education.
I love the term "real" musician. I play in a cover band were I am viewed by the singer as not being a real musician because I did not pay my dues by being a starving musician and instead have a career. His viewpoint is not that uncommon locally - people often think that because you have a career and are financially stable that you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Instead of realizing that being successful at anything takes hard work and dedication instead of expecting the universe to reward you because you feel entitled. I find this particualry entertaining since he somehow could afford a semester or two at Berkelee which cost more than my entire college education.
In the singular, no. A poser is a special animal not necessarily associated with "selling out." A poser (a pretender, a faker) is that guy in your band who thinks the rest of us are there to make him look good. This is the same guy who constantly shows up to rehearsals late and unprepared. At shows said person is always under prepared and usually gets too drunk and/or stoned on a paying gig. They end up just slopping through the show because they don't prep at home like a "real" musician.
I could go on a bit more but you get the point. IMO It's about being a team player and creating musical cred not street cred. Habitually being lame is what makes a poser. Selling out is a bit different.
In the plural, yes. A statement such as "those guys are just posers" (referring to the entire band) would infer that band being a sell out and/or a substantial lack of musical talent.
IMO, IME, YMMV
edited for spelling and clarification
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Real band: I play the music I want 'cause I like it regardless of the economic response.
Sell out: I still like the music that I play, but change the image and play something else (that I couldn't care less) just for the sake of making money.
Other than trying something different for which I still have interest.
Just to be clear, I don't care/know if either statement above is right or wrong, but that's what I thought it meant.
Sell out: I still like the music that I play, but change the image and play something else (that I couldn't care less) just for the sake of making money.
Other than trying something different for which I still have interest.
Just to be clear, I don't care/know if either statement above is right or wrong, but that's what I thought it meant.
my opinion is if people spent as much time shopping for music that they'd actually pay for or time and money going to concerts as they do hating on bands the music industry would be a lot better for it. Even as a local musician my band see internet trolls from time to time. If I respond at all my first response is usually "did you buy the album?" When they say "no" I reply, "then why should I care what you think"?
MDBass
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"Selling out" is just a nonsense idea that entitled people who are either bitter about the success of others, or disapprove of one of their favorite band's artistic direction, harp on.
Personally, I think 5FDP writes absolutely AWFUL music, but that has nothing to do with them being "sell outs".
I think 'sell out' is a VERY relative term, and to me, pretty pointless, if not just ignorant.
IF you are in a band that makes that light-speed jump from playing clubs and dance halls and a year or two later you're touring behind a #1 album, the question doesn't matter: It's already been made for you.
You're suddenly dealing in cubic feet of cash, you've got busses and 18-wheelers to keep on the road, a crew of 4 dozen minimum, tee-shirts and Frisbees to sell, and on and on. You're now incorporated, and looking to make all the right money decisions an LLC with a seven or eight figure income has to make. And on and on. And all of this has nothing to do with the music and the feeling for music that brought you together. And you have to keep those original feelings while dealing with all of the above and more. Fortunately you're hopefully still a year or two out from the rounds of divorces, paternity suits, rehab, drug-sniffing dogs and egos gone wild, and beginning to payoff the mountain of debt you've accrued. OF COURSE each one of you should have your own coach, why stay crammed into that Prevost with THOSE guys . . . .
Now maybe, you really can't shake that feeling you DID sell out, and you're willing to walk away from your Porsches, the house in the gated community in Marin County or The Hamptons, and the money and the gigantic, ego-stroking, head-swelling, sweet smell of success.
Go ahead. It's OK. Go.
And some will. And most . . . . . won't. What the hey, it sure beats working for a living !?! And that's the point: Any fool can get lucky and be a one-hit-wonder, but to have a career that works for years, it's an ever evolving blend of art and hard work and business. Sorry kids, maybe I'M a sell-out !
IF you are in a band that makes that light-speed jump from playing clubs and dance halls and a year or two later you're touring behind a #1 album, the question doesn't matter: It's already been made for you.
You're suddenly dealing in cubic feet of cash, you've got busses and 18-wheelers to keep on the road, a crew of 4 dozen minimum, tee-shirts and Frisbees to sell, and on and on. You're now incorporated, and looking to make all the right money decisions an LLC with a seven or eight figure income has to make. And on and on. And all of this has nothing to do with the music and the feeling for music that brought you together. And you have to keep those original feelings while dealing with all of the above and more. Fortunately you're hopefully still a year or two out from the rounds of divorces, paternity suits, rehab, drug-sniffing dogs and egos gone wild, and beginning to payoff the mountain of debt you've accrued. OF COURSE each one of you should have your own coach, why stay crammed into that Prevost with THOSE guys . . . .
Now maybe, you really can't shake that feeling you DID sell out, and you're willing to walk away from your Porsches, the house in the gated community in Marin County or The Hamptons, and the money and the gigantic, ego-stroking, head-swelling, sweet smell of success.
Go ahead. It's OK. Go.
And some will. And most . . . . . won't. What the hey, it sure beats working for a living !?! And that's the point: Any fool can get lucky and be a one-hit-wonder, but to have a career that works for years, it's an ever evolving blend of art and hard work and business. Sorry kids, maybe I'M a sell-out !
Most indie bands you hear on the radio will have had either songs written for them, or at the very least had a heavy-handed producer shaping their raw material into something sellable. This happens in genres like metal too.
The idea that NOT selling out is an option for pro bands is kind of a myth, if you ask me.
The idea that NOT selling out is an option for pro bands is kind of a myth, if you ask me.
In my opinion, selling out would be abandoning what one represents while pretending otherwise.
In the ignorance of my youth, selling out meant playing in a Top 40 band, a Polka , a Country band, or a Wedding band. After two months of no gigs selling out dropped from my vocabulary.
When I was growing up, I liked a lot of 90s pop punk bands. Of course, some of them came from their own respective punk scenes, and while never truly being "punk" bands, they carried the punk title and a lot of punk fans (and some bands) took offense to it. Punk was never about signing to a major record company, or trying to make it big. But in the words of the bassist of one of those bands (paraphrasing a bit): "I don't consider myself a sell-out. I'm doing exactly what I did before, but now I'm getting paid to do it." Or something along those lines. Billie Joe Armstrong said something in an interview along the lines of when he signed a record deal, he didn't do it because he thought he was "selling out" or "getting paid," he did it because he wanted to play music for the rest of his life.
Many bands or pop stars/rappers/musicians/etc are sell-outs. While I think the end game in this world of ours is making money, there are certain things that may consider you a sell-out. If you endorse a product you don't believe in or don't use, it could be considered selling out. But If you appear in a commercial or ad for something you use/enjoy/believe in, I don't think that's "selling out". For example, I'm currently playing with some friends and while we haven't come up with a band name yet, we use Palm Trees as a placeholder. The other day while I was shopping for body wash I noticed that the Old Spice Fiji combo pack (body wash, deodorant, etc) came in a box that said "PALM TREES" on it. I laughed and send it to my friend saying that Old Spice had already endorsed us. I am an Old Spice user and Fiji is one of the body washes I use in my rotation. If I did a commercial for them, would that be selling out? Or would it just be me putting myself out there for a product I like?
Selling out is a really relative term. While some punks believe you do music for the message (which I totally respect), I want to be able to provide for myself and my family. I'll take a paycheck and I believe I'm smart enough to keep my dignity intact while doing so!
Many bands or pop stars/rappers/musicians/etc are sell-outs. While I think the end game in this world of ours is making money, there are certain things that may consider you a sell-out. If you endorse a product you don't believe in or don't use, it could be considered selling out. But If you appear in a commercial or ad for something you use/enjoy/believe in, I don't think that's "selling out". For example, I'm currently playing with some friends and while we haven't come up with a band name yet, we use Palm Trees as a placeholder. The other day while I was shopping for body wash I noticed that the Old Spice Fiji combo pack (body wash, deodorant, etc) came in a box that said "PALM TREES" on it. I laughed and send it to my friend saying that Old Spice had already endorsed us. I am an Old Spice user and Fiji is one of the body washes I use in my rotation. If I did a commercial for them, would that be selling out? Or would it just be me putting myself out there for a product I like?
Selling out is a really relative term. While some punks believe you do music for the message (which I totally respect), I want to be able to provide for myself and my family. I'll take a paycheck and I believe I'm smart enough to keep my dignity intact while doing so!
Selling out and not being a real band usually means simply that a band made it to the big time.
Cases in point:
Green Day's Dookie;
Nirvana's Nevermind;
Metallica's Black Album.
All three you'll hear being dismissed as the band selling out, not being real punk/grunge/metal, not being the best of their respective genre and time.
And yet all three are great albums full of great songs.
Cases in point:
Green Day's Dookie;
Nirvana's Nevermind;
Metallica's Black Album.
All three you'll hear being dismissed as the band selling out, not being real punk/grunge/metal, not being the best of their respective genre and time.
And yet all three are great albums full of great songs.
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A good friend of mine is one of the top guitarists in the world always says "artists have two things to offer, they're talent and they're time and they deserve to be compensated for both".
With the exception of rap, hip hop and death metal, if someone wants to pay me a lot of money to play music, I'll do it as long as it doesn't compromise my personal beliefs. I don't look at it as selling out. I prefer to call it cashing in.
With the exception of rap, hip hop and death metal, if someone wants to pay me a lot of money to play music, I'll do it as long as it doesn't compromise my personal beliefs. I don't look at it as selling out. I prefer to call it cashing in.
