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Double Bass REALLY Learning a tune

#81
Here's an exercise I am doing, which came from John Myung's video.


there are basically 8 patterns, which are applied to 4 types of arpeggios (Major, Minor, Dominant, and Diminished)

To expand, say you are working on the Major Arpeggio.

For each pattern, you go around in the circle of fourths as follows.

Pattern 1: Root to Root, Ascending

so if you start on C,

you go C E G B, F A C E, Bb D F A...

Pattern 2: Third to Third, Ascending

so if you start on C,

you go E G B C , A C E F , D F A Bb ...

Pattern 3: Fifth to Fifth, Ascending

so if you start on C,

you go G B C E , C E F A , F A Bb D ...


Pattern 4: Seventh to Seventh, Ascending

so if you start on C,

you go B C E G , E F A C , A Bb D F...



Pattern 5, 6, 7, 8 are the same as 1, 2, 3, 4, but Descending..


You can also do root to third, root to fifth, root to seventh.

After applying these patterns to Major arpeggio, you move on to Minor, then Dominant, then Diminished..

gets you finger and ear working like crazy..
 
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#82
Ed Fuqua said:
What work are you doing with triads and chords with Glenn?
Click to expand...

Frankly, I haven't brought this specific issue up to him yet. I am going to during my next lesson.

In the meantime, I will take a look through your exercise regarding inversions. It has been awhile. On Bass Guitar I had run through similar exercises years ago. But the repertoire I played for the most part was not as harmonically rich as jazz, so I used the devices on a limited basis, and not necessarily in such close proximity (as far as chord changes go- more changes when running through standards).

THANKS!
 
#84
Ed:

I still feel your post is invaluable. Thanks again. I am going to continue to work with it for some time.

I have been working on the inversions, not in the process of all 12 keys, but using the changes of a song based on some of the study that Glenn has provided me. So far, all of what I've been playing is either quarter note, or sixteenth note patterns. I will reverse gears at some point and start over with your improvising half, quarter, triplet, sixteenth, etc.

In the meantime, I simply don't have a lot of familiarity with the repertoire.

Currently working (from the inside out) on:
No Greater Love
Satin Doll
Stella By Starlight

Ready to get another couple of tunes in the mix. Probably a Bossa (Meditation or Corcovado), and need to get 'A' Train and Autumn Leaves back in the mix.

Although I am working with my teacher, I was wondering how I might go about memorizing songs and changes to the long list of standards that are expected to be known without paper?

My goal in 2008 is to get a large number of those under my belt.

I will be auditioning for placement in a Standards ensemble that will probably amount to about 10-12 tunes over the course of 10 weeks.

My practice time is generally limited to 2 hours 4-5 days a week, and 3-4 hours a day over the weekend (Sat & Sun).

I know it can take a lifetime to master, but, I am looking to get to an immediate level of competence that if somebody calls Satin Doll, or 'A' Train, etc., that I don't have to "look" like an amateur and pull the chart out.
 
#85
drew_bassmore said:
Ed:

Although I am working with my teacher, I was wondering how I might go about memorizing songs and changes to the long list of standards that are expected to be known without paper?

My goal in 2008 is to get a large number of those under my belt.

I will be auditioning for placement in a Standards ensemble that will probably amount to about 10-12 tunes over the course of 10 weeks.

My practice time is generally limited to 2 hours 4-5 days a week, and 3-4 hours a day over the weekend (Sat & Sun).

I know it can take a lifetime to master, but, I am looking to get to an immediate level of competence that if somebody calls Satin Doll, or 'A' Train, etc., that I don't have to "look" like an amateur and pull the chart out.
Click to expand...

On a simplistic level i think most tunes can be learnt in the same way as specific basslines etc by that I mean you learn a bit at a time, make sure you remeber it and then move on. ie, for beautiful love start of with Em7b5, A7b9, Dm7, D7. play those round a few times untill you get the sound in your head, play the melody then the changes, then solo the changes etc. If your methodical im sure you could nail a tune every couple of days like that.

but it becomes really easy when you know your theory, for example, if you know a bit of theory you can say that beautiful love is a minor II V I then a major II V I in the major relative to the minor.

that straight away allows you to remeber the changes to the first half of the songand even better allows you to play them in any key. you just remember ' ii v i, relative II V I,
i, iv, vi7, v7' etc. it becomes a stream of numbered changes which are very easy to remember.

so many jazz standards are just made up of decorations of II V I's and III VI II V I's that if you find them they become easy to memorise.
eg, take the a train - I, II7, II V I x2 then IV, II7, II V I

so you see 'a train' is just a dominant II which goes minor into a II V I. the only bit to remember is the preceding chord. a I in the A section, a IV in the B section.

as soon as you can put what happens in the tune into roman numerals you are sorted as regards remebering it. even the most complex of standards have some kind of simple harmony at there core, so you maybe have to remeber only one or two 'odd' changes. and the standards that change key allot dont tend to be very complex whent they are within each key, ie satin doll

II, V, II, V in C, II V II V in D. so all you really have to remember for that first bit is 'two pairs of two fives, the second pair up a tone'. then to continue 'after the last II V resolve to its I but make it a I7, then same a semitone down leading back to the original I.

you can make up your own shorthand description's which make sense to you, but if you can group things together in common harmonic blocks than things become very transparent and easy to remember!
 
#86
Drew, I assume you're going for one of the ensembles at the Jazzschool. If so, keep doing it, and you'll get the hang of it right quick.

To add to what Charling wrote, also take into account certain landmarks for certain tunes and use them to get back on track if you ever get lost. For instance, I always remember that Alone Together starts on a Dm7 and the A part always ends with a Dmaj7, or the weird change on that tune is a ii V going from Bm7/E7 -> Gm7/C7. Or for instance Bluesette always ends with a half-step progression going from Dm7 -> Bb. Things like that.

The next step would be to treat these as roman numerals so you can transpose into any keep. I wish people and the Jazzschool had the balls to take it/offer Glenn's "Tunes in 12 Keys" class again. Memorizing changes then just becomes a skill you learn after a while.

I'm surprised that despite my hiatus on playing, I still remembers these kind of "landmarks" and aided with my ear, I haven't forgotten many of the tunes I memorized in the past.

To get back to what Ed writes about... I'm getting to the point where I'm moving beyond "remembering" the chords and hearing the song/chord tones in my head. You just have to know the song well enough, which is kinda what Ed is getting at I think.
 
#87
Huy:

Thanks for the encouraging words.

I have been finding that running scales, playing the melodies, and running arpeggios from 3rd to 3rd (to begin with), has been helping me get familiar with the tunes sooner than I might have in the past. After I do the above, I run some music minus one and try 2 or broken feel, walking and soloing with the above in mind.

It is helping. I am also trying to remain cognizant of the relationship of the chords (e.g. Dmi7 / G7 = ii / V to C Maj, etc.)

The more I am playing with others, the better I am getting at understanding. Now I need to get my chops to the point where I can start "hearing" and playing lines and solos based on my own statements.

So much work, so little time...
 
#94
There is one other approach that you guys can experiment on that I have been adding to my routine lately. A sax player from Houston, Woody Witt, told me that this is how he memorizes tunes and it seems to work pretty darn well for him. I think it will help to free your improvisation and make it more melodic.

Of course you will have to know the basic harmonies and the exercises above should get you there.

You start by playing just the basic melody, maybe in a couple of keys and different registers. Once that gets solid, you start to ornament the melody, but only slightly, trying to play only what you can hear or sing. When that is comfortable, you add more ornamentation (I think you can already see where this is going). Increase your variations until you're only implying the melody and finally improvising freely.

A guitar player friend once told me "The chords are always changing, but the melody stays the same". I wasn't ready to deal with this at the time but now I hear it. I think sometimes bass players, myself especially, get too locked into the changes when improvising and our lines become too vertical.

You can do a similar exercise for bass lines by using that Rufus Reid pattern. You have to walk through the changes but your notes can never be more than a whole step apart. That creates some crazy beautiful bass lines.
 
#98
I was just going to post that yesterday. I spent a good hour trying to find it. It's damn near impossible to find by searching - possibly because it's been referenced in other threads so many times. Either way, searching for the exact thread title you want doesn't seem to pull that thread up in the results ever.
 
#99
Our quartet has started talking about REALLY learning tunes. It's a daunting task, and I have many reasons/excuses, but I'm going to try...at least the ones we play a lot. Heck, I probably know a lot more than I think, I just need to close the book and take a chance.
 

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