Recently started using a DI Box, looking to minimize stage setup

[Aloe]

Any PF amp that had problems has been fixed about ten years ago. If it is working now, it is not a problem unit or has been properly repaired.

not really, recently a forum member made a post about his new second-hand first-year pf500 that cut out.
probably, the original owner didn't get to fix it and just sold it without proper disclosure.

 

[_Some Dude]

Really appreciate all the good feedback... being of the school to having a bit more power than needed, within reason. So as not having to push the gear to the limit. You are correct about the bands PA, it's a solid system but we built it to support vocals, kick, and congas. Everything else is back line, I've never had a problem getting a decent bass sound to the FOH with my BA210 "stack" using the bands PA, nor hearing myself. If you have ever played near a Hammond Leslie 3500 at volume, it's 360 degrees of sound. When we set up for a gig, it's usually a scramble to see who can set up with the drum kit between themselves and the Leslie . But such is life, my BA's are both V2's with the wedge cab, even that won't push through when the Leslie is growling... Keyboard player is the BL, and an excellent player... and we've all overcompensated before...

Moving on, the V7 seems like a solid option and have good reviews... In the short term I'm covered but will keep an eye out for a good deal on a V7 head (or possibly a V3). In reviewing the V7, apparently it is overpowered for the PF-210HE cab alone but can be used with care. If that comes together look to score another PF-210 cab.

As an aside... I have to admit the BAv2 series have really been solid amps, no complaints. I bought the BA115 when they first came out... around 2014, then picked up the 210 on clearance when the Rocket series was released.

Thanks again...

I would pay to stand in front of a band with a real Leslie on stage.

I know it's not a popular opinion these days, but I think bands sound better when the room is mostly stage volume with the PA providing reinforcement. There's something about my ears being hit by multiple sources that's lost when everything is squeezed through a PA.

If I ever had a key player with a Leslie, I'd carry it for him just so I could hear it.

 

[Nebadon2000]

I would pay to stand in front of a band with a real Leslie on stage.

I know it's not a popular opinion these days, but I think bands sound better when the room is mostly stage volume with the PA providing reinforcement. There's something about my ears being hit by multiple sources that's lost when everything is squeezed through a PA.

If I ever had a key player with a Leslie, I'd carry it for him just so I could hear it.

Back on LI mid 70's Keyboard Player had Hammond B3 and dual Leslie's
But I had SVT 810 and Cerwin Vega 18" Folded Horn and Lead Player had double Stack Marshall
So we all heard ourself and each other

PS; Yes all our sound came from Stage Only Vocals in PA

 

[MarkA]

Really appreciate all the good feedback... being of the school to having a bit more power than needed, within reason. So as not having to push the gear to the limit. You are correct about the bands PA, it's a solid system but we built it to support vocals, kick, and congas. Everything else is back line, I've never had a problem getting a decent bass sound to the FOH with my BA210 "stack" using the bands PA, nor hearing myself. If you have ever played near a Hammond Leslie 3500 at volume, it's 360 degrees of sound. When we set up for a gig, it's usually a scramble to see who can set up with the drum kit between themselves and the Leslie . But such is life, my BA's are both V2's with the wedge cab, even that won't push through when the Leslie is growling... Keyboard player is the BL, and an excellent player... and we've all overcompensated before...

Moving on, the V7 seems like a solid option and have good reviews... In the short term I'm covered but will keep an eye out for a good deal on a V7 head (or possibly a V3). In reviewing the V7, apparently it is overpowered for the PF-210HE cab alone but can be used with care. If that comes together look to score another PF-210 cab.

As an aside... I have to admit the BAv2 series have really been solid amps, no complaints. I bought the BA115 when they first came out... around 2014, then picked up the 210 on clearance when the Rocket series was released.

Thanks again...

De nada.

I've never gotten to play with a real Hammond B-3 or a real Leslie -- simulations of those things, yes, but the real thing? No. Maybe someday. I think it'd be pretty cool (with earplugs, but that's most things these days). ;-)

Just so I'm clear, when you use the band's PA, 1) you need the BA 210/PF210 stack to keep up with the Leslie, 2) there's some kick drum in the PA, 3) There is zero bass (and zero Hammond B-3) in the PA. Is that all correct? Do you need "most" of the stack to keep up, or is it just loafing along?

About the 210 AVs... are you familiar with the SVT 410 HE? I haven't played them side-by-side, but I'm tempted to think of two 210 AVs as roughly equivalent to an "SVT 310 HE" (if Ampeg made such a thing). Power handling is lower (500 Watts for the 410, 400 for the two 210s) and, if you look at the cabs' dimensions, internal volume for the 2 x 210AV stack is lower (by roughly one-quarter).

Maybe they'd do you fine, but it's hard for me, sitting here spitballing, to tell. If there's somewhere you can try them out -- especially next to your PF-210 -- that might be worth doing (or if you find one cheap, you could pick it up, try it out, and decide if you want to add s second or move it along).

Otherwise, you've got your current rig, 2 x PF-210s + amp X, or the Ampeg (or 'peg-leaning) head of your choice + a different cab or cabs. I'm a fan of the "vertical 410" stack (you could flip your 210s on their side and stack 'em, though you're not legally obligated to do that ), a good 2x12, two 15s of your choice, yadda yadda...

Whatever you do, good luck and have fun!

 

[MarkA]

...I know it's not a popular opinion these days, but I think bands sound better when the room is mostly stage volume with the PA providing reinforcement. There's something about my ears being hit by multiple sources that's lost when everything is squeezed through a PA....

I agree! I was going to say something similar in another thread. Especially in smaller rooms.

There's the potential for it to be done (sometimes very) badly, of course (the same is true when PA and monitors are used), but, yeah, I think, often, something is lost when you stereo-mix everything through what amounts to a big home theater system.

Don't get me wrong -- PAs (and especially competent, conscientious people running them) are very much appreciated, but putting everything through them is not always a net gain in every situation. (Then again, as long as the equipment's up to the task, I think it's the driver that makes the difference more often than the car, PA or no.)

 

[Wasnex]

About the 210 AVs... are you familiar with the SVT 410 HE? I haven't played them side-by-side, but I'm tempted to think of two 210 AVs as roughly equivalent to an "SVT 310 HE" (if Ampeg made such a thing). Power handling is lower (500 Watts for the 410, 400 for the two 210s) and, if you look at the cabs' dimensions, internal volume for the 2 x 210AV stack is lower (by roughly one-quarter).

My impression is the 410HE can take more of a pounding than a pair of 210AVs. Also the 410HE is 8 ohms and has a tweeter you can adjust to taste or turn off.

A pair of 210AVs are more flexible as you can stack them vertically. Bring one or two depending on how loud you need to play. Each 210AV is 8 ohms, so a pair will be 4 ohms with most amps. No tweeter.

Keep in mind tube amps deliver max power when they see the expected load. In contrast, most solid state amp deliver more power at 4 ohms than 8 ohms--So consider the specific power rating specs for the amp to be used.

I would prefer to lift two smaller cabs, rather than one rather big and bulky cab (YMMV). However, I like tweeters . Such a dilemma .

 

[tothemax]

@MarkA

All correct... our PA is a passive FOH and stage monitor system. My BA210 combo will hold it's own for a stage monitor with the Leslie, but can get a little muddy when the keys hit the low end at volume. With the "stack" I can always hear myself without any problem, probably because the combo (on top) is just about chest height (and not purely volume). Unless it's a small inside gig, with our PA I always use the stacked rig (4x10) to be sure I'm getting a good FOH sound. I run wireless, so it's easy to wander out front and check.

I also agree there is nothing better than setting up and the venue having a good sound system with a skilled sound tech... The video below is from an annual gig we play, great sound guy. You can see my "stack" behind me. This is before I added the MXR M80 DI, this is using the built in Ampeg DI on the BA210. A friend sat in on flute... fun day. This day the Leslie was all the way stage right... I was in the clear....

​

 

[Old Fart]

Old Fart here to report that going cabinet-free and monitor-free on stages is vastly superior to what I had always done in the before time. We use IEMs. SO MANY advantages. "Stage sound" (what the musicians hear as we perform) is always perfect. My hearing is protected from drum/cymbal damage. Sound guys don't have to deal with a PA fighting the stage cabs. We get compliments on our sound at every gig. I even get compliments on bass tone.

Even recently a bass player friend had his cabinet fart out on him during a show, so he went direct to board and he has since decided to just leave the bass cabinets at home.

So here we have a 68 year-old advising TB youngsters to modernize. Hmmm......

 

[tothemax]

Btw O.F.
Just for the record I'm 70... (actually three of us are in our 70's, the others mid to late 60's). While it might be an advantage, with the small number of gig's we play there is no justification to invest in a mid-level IEM system. Maybe down the road, but not high on our list... I do most of the live sound mix, and the last thing I want is another bit of tech to deal with.

Cheers

 

[Passinwind]

I would pay to stand in front of a band with a real Leslie on stage.

I know it's not a popular opinion these days, but I think bands sound better when the room is mostly stage volume with the PA providing reinforcement. There's something about my ears being hit by multiple sources that's lost when everything is squeezed through a PA.

The best PA is often no or vocals-only PA for some of my favorite music styles, but I defiinitely tend to the sit down and shut up persuasion.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I've never had an over the top rig, just the basics to do what I need. Playing in a 5 piece, medium volume classic rock band I've been using an Ampeg BA-210 with a PF-210 cab. Since I started using the MXR M80, if the PA has subs I'll only use the BA-210 so I can hear myself (and DI through the PA). Like most of us, looking to expand our range and tone I was wondering if I should look for a head to use with the PF-210 and have that as an option. I've always thought the Micro SVT stack was a cool idea, but not sure if it would be any different than the BA-210 (micro SVT comes in 100w, or 200w vs. 283w on the 210). Adding a head to the Porta Flex would provide some latitude in tones and wattage depending on the head (plus a chance to use the flip top). I won't lie, there is something about the Ampeg tone...

Just thinking out loud here...

I’ve been going through an SGT-DI and head phone mix, or just a monitor wedge shared with the drummer. Works great. Pretty small foot print

BTW, I did the EQ for my bass on the PA and sent to the wedge. The guy I replaced had that tone all jacked up. The one guitarist game up to me after the first gig and said, “Wow so that’s what a bass sounds like! I can actually hear what you are playing, not this nebulous indistinguishable low end rumble.”

 

[MarkA]

My impression is the 410HE can take more of a pounding than a pair of 210AVs.

We are in agreement, there! My experience with either isn't extensive, but when I've played through or heard them live, that's been my impression. A look at the available specs (couldn't find sensitivity for the 210 AV) seems to suggest more-or-less likewise. I just figured the 410 HE was a fairly common point of reference.

Also the 410HE is 8 ohms and has a tweeter you can adjust to taste or turn off.

I should have mentioned that it's 8 Ohms -- if playing a solid state amp, you'll need more amp to hit its ceiling than with a 4 Ohm, 2 x 210 AV stack (but the ceiling should be higher).

In some cabs I'd want a tweeter (or some sort of HF driver). With the 210 AVs, I dunno -- it'd make them more flexible (and maybe a little more expensive), but I think their simplicity is part of their appeal and that they do what they do pretty well without. (Maybe I'd change my mind if I heard one -- the Wasnex Signature 310 AVT? -- with, though. )

A pair of 210AVs are more flexible as you can stack them vertically. Bring one or two depending on how loud you need to play. Each 210AV is 8 ohms, so a pair will be 4 ohms with most amps. No tweeter.

Keep in mind tube amps deliver max power when they see the expected load. In contrast, most solid state amp deliver more power at 4 ohms than 8 ohms--So consider the specific power rating specs for the amp to be used.

I would prefer to lift two smaller cabs, rather than one rather big and bulky cab (YMMV). However, I like tweeters . Such a dilemma .

Sometimes I'd rather have one medium or medium-large size cab, but two does offer more flexibility. I don't like the traditional 4x10 configuration, though -- it's a pain to carry through doorways and to load into some cars -- and I'd usually rather have something like a vertical 2x12 on stage. (A good 4x10 is a workhorse, though -- many entering third third decade of service, without fanfare, in bars across the country.)

 

[tothemax]

I'm in agreement on the lifting part... that was the whole consideration for the Micro SVT option. But, one needs to be practical. I've always had a sweet spot for the old Porta Flex flip top look, one must consider the coolness factor with practicality I'm leaning in that direction, no reason to obsess or GAS on the gear, but it never hurts to keep an eye open for those components.

Thanks for all the good feedback, Cheers

 

[MarkA]

@MarkA

All correct... our PA is a passive FOH and stage monitor system. My BA210 combo will hold it's own for a stage monitor with the Leslie, but can get a little muddy when the keys hit the low end at volume. With the "stack" I can always hear myself without any problem, probably because the combo (on top) is just about chest height (and not purely volume). Unless it's a small inside gig, with our PA I always use the stacked rig (4x10) to be sure I'm getting a good FOH sound. I run wireless, so it's easy to wander out front and check.

I also agree there is nothing better than setting up and the venue having a good sound system with a skilled sound tech... The video below is from an annual gig we play, great sound guy. You can see my "stack" behind me. This is before I added the MXR M80 DI, this is using the built in Ampeg DI on the BA210. A friend sat in on flute... fun day. This day the Leslie was all the way stage right... I was in the clear....

​

Okay, this gives me a better idea of your rig "in the wild." Fun tune! I like some of the lines you're playing. Your drummer and conga player look to be having fun, too.

I'm in agreement on the lifting part... that was the whole consideration for the Micro SVT option. But, one needs to be practical. I've always had a sweet spot for the old Porta Flex flip top look, one must consider the coolness factor with practicality I'm leaning in that direction, no reason to obsess or GAS on the gear, but it never hurts to keep an eye open for those components.

Thanks for all the good feedback, Cheers

Have fun and don't let gear (weight or obsession-with -- def. need to take my own advice, here!) get in the way!