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Recording, mixing and panning drums

SubHuman

SubHuman

Dec 29, 2005
4,297
25,009
Good Old USA
#1
Me and my drummer are finally going to start meeting and recording again after 4+ months and it will be just the 2 of us jamming now. We're all older (mid 60's) and the other 2 guitarists/vocalists are retiring now since this stupid virus hit. That's a whole other story.

One of the guitar players was the primary Producer/Engineer for recording and mixing so I will be trying my hand at the whole process...just for fun. Not planning on releasing anything. Ha! This is purely for our own enjoyment and learning. Also we both still love playing and jamming. I have been solo recording for the last 4 months and feel like I can do a decent job on capturing the bass, guitar, vocals and keyboards. Drums will be totally new to me.

I'm just wondering if there is a tried and true method that any of you guys generally use for recording, mixing and panning your drums. Drums are one of the few true stereo instruments but I know some prefer mono mixdowns too. I'm interested to hear any advice or tips on how to get the most dynamic drums with decent (not pro) gear and average mics like SM57's AKG's, etc. The drum kit is a very nice sounding Yamaha Stage Custom.

  • Do you extreme hard pan left and right on the overheads and/or toms?
  • Do you pan drums from the drummers perspective or the audience?
  • Do you add reverb to the snare or keep it dry?
  • Do you mic both the top and bottom side of your snare? bottom mic phase reversed
  • Do you gate any/all drums or record/mix them wide open?
  • Do you pre or post process drums with compressors? I have hardware and plugins
Some of these things I already have my own ideas but I want to hear your methods.
I know that a recording/final mix is like an abstract painting so no real set rules but what do you guys do that you feel gives you the best sounding drum results?

This will be an interesting new experience! This might be a make or break time for both of us to keep getting together. Fingers crossed we can produce something we both enjoy to keep us going! I've enjoyed many great years of music and jamming...
too bad this virus brought everything to a screeching halt!
 
#2
Recording drums is not easy. Sometimes simplicity is the best course, especially if you don't have the experience or gear. You should do a search for recording drums with 2, 3 or 4 mics. Its a great way to start. Two overheads and kick and/or snare mic. There are several variations on where to place overheads. Parallel compression (sending your mixed drums to an aux with a compressor) is a very great technique to know. Also, using some parallel distortion makes drums sound huge. Yes, I said distortion. Can be any device such as a foot pedal. Send it to an aux bus and sprinkle in to taste. There are tons of web articles and videos on the subject. Pay attention to what he says about phase.
Video: How To Record Drums with 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 Microphones with Brian Deck

 
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#4
Personally, for most of my recording I use MIDI drums (Session Drummer etc), taking advantage of someone else's work miking, sampling and processing the drum sounds, so I can flail away on mesh heads at considerably lower volume. But, I've miked up a kit or two as well.

SubHuman said:
  • Do you extreme hard pan left and right on the overheads and/or toms?
Click to expand...

No. Just in general, consider the arrangement of a band on stage, with you about as far back from the stage as the stage is wide. Now imagine where the drums are on stage, how much of the stage they take up. It's not very much. From the hat on house right all the way over to the rides to house left, the drums might, on a small stage, span a third of the total width.

Drums are a key piece of the stereo image, but they shouldn't define the full width of that field. That's especially true when you consider headphone listeners, where something panned hard left doesn't just sound like it's off to house left, it sounds like it's right in your left ear. Example: Brown-Eyed Girl. Love the song, I can't listen to it in the cans because the guitar and bass are panned pretty hard to their side of the stage.

Generally speaking I rarely hard-pan any single channel, and I tend to keep drums within maybe 30% of center, but I do spread the OHs and snare/hat/toms naturally within that slice of the soundfield.

SubHuman said:
  • Do you pan drums from the drummers perspective or the audience?
Click to expand...

Audience/house. They are the "listeners". Imagine yourself at FOH building a passable live mix; when something happens house left, you should hear it in the left channel and v/v. So, for a typical kit setup, think toms left, snare/hat right (but remember not to spread too wide).

SubHuman said:
  • Do you add reverb to the snare or keep it dry?
Click to expand...

Usually, the snare has plenty of ring-out on its own. Which is actually a problem, I usually find myself needing to dampen the batter head (top) quite significantly to get the tone I want. You usually don't need as much damping live,

SubHuman said:
  • Do you mic both the top and bottom side of your snare? bottom mic phase reversed
Click to expand...

Rig-dependent. And channel-dependent. If I have 16 channels to devote specifically to the drumkit, sure, I'll throw a 57 or i5 at the snares. Other times I'm limited to one snare mic, and in those situations, for the above reason, I often only use an "underside" mic, or I point one at the shell.

As for polarity, that's also setup-dependent; the point is to get the snare signals to combine constructively. That doesn't necessarily mean you flip polarity on the underside mic.

SubHuman said:
  • Do you gate any/all drums or record/mix them wide open?
Click to expand...

I record everything wide open, I prefer post-processing to anything between mic and DAW. That's mostly a function of gear quality/paucity and user experience; if I miked up enough kits to have a sense of how I wanted it to sound, I'd probably do more up front. Once I have it in the box, sure, I'll add gating and compression on a per-channel basis to mold the dynamic curve of each hit.

Keep in mind that this means you have to pay attention to head amp levels at the mixer/interface/DAW. Without compression/limiting inline, hard hits will peak the system and you'll have to go back and re-record after a gain adjustment. And if there's anything more frustrating than getting the mike setup perfect in the first place, it's trying to re-record a spot mike take that doesn't conflict with bleedover from any other mikes of the previous take that you like, so you typically have to re-record the entire kit. Whatever your signal chain, take the time to prep it, you'll save a lot of time on the back end.

SubHuman said:
  • Do you pre or post process drums with compressors? I have hardware and plugins
Click to expand...

As previously stated I prefer to post-process, more because I fear losing signal quality to inline gear (whether of poor quality or poor configuration) than because I prefer what I can get from DSP. If you have a rack of compression and you know what you're after from it, by all means use it.
 
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#5
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#6
 
#7
Now that I have more time...

I use anywhere from 2 to 20 channels for drums. Kick and mono overhead all the way to individually micing everything, plus triggers and multiple room mics. Just depends on the session. Top and bottom snare mics can be useful, but you can do great with just the top.

I always record without any processing. Overheads are panned hard L/R, but toms are spread in the field, and I rarely pan any hard.

Gating I do with aixdsp Multi Band Gate. It's pretty easy to use and it means I don't have to do much mute automation. Compression starts on the drum bus, and then individual tracks only if necessary.

Reverb I start with on the top snare, and then add to the overheads as needed. With room mics, OH verb isn't always necessary, but snare verb is.
 
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#8
Great stuff! It will be a few weeks before we will track anything because like the Tin Man in the Wizard of OZ we’re both rusty. Ha! I’ll report back on our progress.
I know life is always changing but this virus has totally changed my world in a moment just like all of you. Hoping my drummer and myself can keep rocking together for a few more years.
If anyone else has some recording info to share I will treasure it. This is probably my last music adventure before I go solo!
Bitter-sweet times. If you’re young or young at heart and jamming with friends or other musicians cherish every moment of every session.
 
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#9
What style of music / general vibe / instrumentation? I may have different answers to some or all of these questions based on the styles the vibe, and the song.

In general, for sparser quieter more "intimate" sounding recordings, I like the "Glynn Johns" technique (3 mics, pretty simple, lots of deeper info on the web). I would pan hard in this scenario, and wouldn't be close miking the snare at all. I might also do a blumlein stero pair only. Really depends on the drummer, the kitz the song, etc.

For louder, denser arrangements, I usually close mic all the drums, top and bottom mic the snare, overhead would be in an XY config and panned maybe 50% in the mix. There would be verb on the snare, assuming the room itself isn't too live. If the room sounds good i will put a ribbon mic in there for some room sound.

Tuning the drums well and getting rid of excess ringing and sympathetic vibrations will help tons. You want it to sound in the room like you need it to sound on the finished product, as much as possible.

One trick for toms is to take off the top head, put a handful of cotton balls in there, then put the head back on and tune it up. The cotton balls bounce and allow the bottom head to vibrate for a short time, but then they fall down and mute the bottom head. I would never ever gate anything while tracking, but this serves a similar purpose. Get some moon gels, they work wonders too. Great in cymbals believe it or not. Also tell the drummer not to hit the cymbals too hard. Even for a loud song. Cymbals struck too hard don't record well / don't usually sound good.

I compress during tracking (again, only when the song calls for it), but I'd say only do this if you have a really good handle on compression. Otherwise you can do more harm than good... so if not really comfortable with the finer points if compression just do it during mixdown where trial and error will get you where you need to be.
 
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#10
Man, there are so many ways you can go...the most important thing, though, is to get the drums themselves sounding good. Not hard with a set like your drummer's, I'm sure.

Depending on the size of the room, over-micing can lead to nightmares, but you do have the ability to turn off the mics that suck in the mix. Panning is a personal choice, and while I'm almost never for hard panning, I do like to use the stereo field and place each drum in the mix as your ears pick it up. I keep bass drum and snare pretty close to center, though...just panned slightly separate from each other.

Effects...a little bit of reverb is nice but it goes a very long way. Same with compression. Sometimes I just like dry drum sounds with not much at all on them. And I hate toms that are overly muted. So what if they ring? That gets eaten up in the mix, and it saves you from having to recreate it with reverb. And I hate that super tight pingy snare drum head sound, but good luck getting drummers not to do it.

Those are just my thoughts...they might not be my thoughts 5 years from now, though :D
 
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#11
Gotta get the kick and snare sounding right at the start. Kicks can be too boomy, too flappy, or just generally too loud (ok, that one you solve in the mix). IMO the worst snare is one that sounds like hitting a cardboard cereal box.

Both the kick and snare have natural resonance. Tuning and taming these drums is more than half the battle IMO. I’ve also had a few instances where the kick fundamental was tuned in a way that caused dissonance with the bass. Rare, but it’s worth sound checking the drums and bass together a little bit. Of course, now it is possible to pitch change the kick a little bit if needed, but it’s even better if the natural sound of the kick and bass lock well.

Pads, pillows, tape, whatever can be applied to the kick and snare as needed to rein in problem overtones.

Everything beyond kick and snare is way less important unless the song has some sort of signature tom element in the groove. I’d spend 80% of the time on getting the kick and snare sounding right, and 15% on the rest.



(5% percent is to give your ears a break and enjoy a cold beverage)
 
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#12
I’ve spent a lot of time miking drums, and my advice is a combination of condensers, and
close miking. The cymbal crashes have the highest spl’s, so that’s going to be the highest
level. Once you get the cymbals dialed in so the level is strong, but doesn’t go above
Unity Gain, you can then use the close mics to ‘bring up’ the drums. Remember, the condensers will pick up the kick, snare, toms, etc. just not real loud. Mostly the cond. mics
‘set the level’ for the kit. As for the panning, mic placement, etc. you have to experiment.
Where the drums are set up in relation to the room make a difference. I would spend the first
night or two in the studio just testing things, the room, e.q., fx, mic placement etc.
Then take note of it, write it down, then when you want a certain tone, you know where to place everything. To me, the experimentation is part of the creative process.
 
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#13
SubHuman said:
Me and my drummer are finally going to start meeting and recording again after 4+ months and it will be just the 2 of us jamming now. We're all older (mid 60's) and the other 2 guitarists/vocalists are retiring now since this stupid virus hit. That's a whole other story.

One of the guitar players was the primary Producer/Engineer for recording and mixing so I will be trying my hand at the whole process...just for fun. Not planning on releasing anything. Ha! This is purely for our own enjoyment and learning. Also we both still love playing and jamming. I have been solo recording for the last 4 months and feel like I can do a decent job on capturing the bass, guitar, vocals and keyboards. Drums will be totally new to me.

I'm just wondering if there is a tried and true method that any of you guys generally use for recording, mixing and panning your drums. Drums are one of the few true stereo instruments but I know some prefer mono mixdowns too. I'm interested to hear any advice or tips on how to get the most dynamic drums with decent (not pro) gear and average mics like SM57's AKG's, etc. The drum kit is a very nice sounding Yamaha Stage Custom.

  • Do you extreme hard pan left and right on the overheads and/or toms?
  • Do you pan drums from the drummers perspective or the audience?
  • Do you add reverb to the snare or keep it dry?
  • Do you mic both the top and bottom side of your snare? bottom mic phase reversed
  • Do you gate any/all drums or record/mix them wide open?
  • Do you pre or post process drums with compressors? I have hardware and plugins
Some of these things I already have my own ideas but I want to hear your methods.
I know that a recording/final mix is like an abstract painting so no real set rules but what do you guys do that you feel gives you the best sounding drum results?

This will be an interesting new experience! This might be a make or break time for both of us to keep getting together. Fingers crossed we can produce something we both enjoy to keep us going! I've enjoyed many great years of music and jamming...
too bad this virus brought everything to a screeching halt!
Click to expand...

The correct answer to most of the questions you’re asking can vary pretty dramatically depending on the genre you’re working in.

That said:

Hard panning OH mics/toms isn’t particularly musical or something that I’d usually recommend: understanding how various elements best fit in the stereo field is a essential to a great mix, and the only thing you’ll usually want truly hard panned are rhythm guitar doubles.

Some element of compression on the drums will be mandatory, and often multiple instances of it: however, whether you print that compression while recording or add it in post is irrelevant.

I’d recommend using no compression on the way in initially so you can get a better of understanding of how it works in the box.

Yes, you’ll always want a bottom snare mic, even if you end up using very little of it.

Touring and mixing is how I make the entirety of my income, so feel free to reach out via DM if you’d like more specific answers to more specific questions.
 
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#15
I always like to strategically place a room condenser mic to pickup the character of the room or space you are in. Mixing that track in can add some character and life into a drum track.

Listen carefully for weird ringing noises from drums. Sometimes the ear can’t pick them up, but the mic can. It can be annoying, but it is far better to figure it out before you track as compared to after the fact when you are trying to slice out a certain frequency.
 
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#17
Like others have suggested, check out the Glyn Johns method of recording drums. It's very easy and will usually give GREAT results. I personally wouldn't use it for metal but for most genres it's great. You won't need a lot of mics either. A decent pair of overhead mics (preferably some kind of condenser mics) + a decent kick drum mic and you're good to go. Depending on the song I sometimes like to add a snare mic too and the SM57 is a true and tested classic for this.

Close miking every drum is very time consuming and takes a lot more learning to get it right. You'll also have to deal with potential phase issues to a far greater extent. If you don't know what you're doing the drums can easily end up sounding thinner and thinner for each mic you add. For a project that's only for fun I wouldn't bother with extensive close miking unless you are very dedicated to learn how to record drums and prepared to invest a lot of time in it.

The Glyn Johns method is fast, easy and has been used on lots of classic albums. It's not a compromise or a "beginner" technique in any way, just a very easy way for beginners to get a great drum sound.

Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
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#18
...and of course as always when recording: Crap in = crap out. Make sure the drums are tuned properly and have resonably fresh skins. This is BY FAR the most important thing when recording drums. Well, that and the room acoustics.
 
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#19
Some of your questions will depend on the style. I'm a fairly novice recording engineer, but my master preferences are:
1. I usually will not apply reverb effects to an individual track - I like to apply it to the full mix. I find that applying reverb to an individual track makes it not blend well with the mix.
2. For panning, I like to apply a subtle pan for each mic, roughly relative to their physical relationship to the kick with the intent of trying to represent what the kit sounds like live - from audience perspective.
3. I tend to record clean and apply compression, eq and other adjustments as I mix.
4. I've never top and bottomed a snare. For my level of experience, equipment and recording environment, the fewer mics the better. I've had more problem with bleed over than not enough signal. In a less than ideal environment, I've found that a kick and one or two overheads is usually better than a full miced kit.

Again, I'm no expert - these are just my preferences.
 
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