Red flags? Should I run?

[ToneMonkey]

Run Forest, run.

I believe songwriters have an absolute right to hear what they wanna hear on their songs. And I will work tirelessly to give them that. But I’m at my best when people hire me because they like what I already do.

Two good faith attempts were not good enough? The universe is trying to tell you this ain’t for you.

 

[gln1955]

Another big moment was the “all the previous musicians have had trouble with this song”. It’s like hearing your fiancée mention “all her previous fiancés.” Umm, how many? Where did they go?

When I hear someone say something like this, I always think: hmm....what's the common denominator here?..oh, yeah, it's YOU.

 

[ZAR14]

I would say no, that is not at all the way the BL would find out those things in any meaningful way. You would find out those things through personal contact and through actually playing together.

BUT yet there have been countless posts over the yrs about people discovering that the new member of the Band doesn't practice their parts, wants to use rehearsal time as learning their parts or just tries to wing it....

 

[Eminor3rd]

I don't see any issue with her process right now -- sending track back and forth, etc. After all, she's clearly not just "auditioning" you for your skills, but also your willingness to work under her conditions.

But it does sound like she's going to be extremely picky with your parts. Unless the parts she is referring to are specific melodies or fills (which need to be exact from the songwriter's perspective), I would imagine (based on your post) that you'd find the arrangement to be extremely limiting. FWIW, I probably would too.

It sounds like you should bail because you want more freedom in what you play than this BL is willing to give you. And that's exactly how I'd tell her -- there's nothing wrong with running as tight a ship as she is running, she just has to be willing to take the time to find musicians who are happy on said ship. If it isn't you, then it just isn't you.

 

[Sixgunn]

Is it just me, or is this songwriter/BL showing me some red flags? Should I try to back out gracefully? This is a long story, but you might enjoy it.

BL is the female singer and songwriter. She has a guitarist and drummer and is just seeking a bassist to round out the group. Because we are all busy adults, she's realistic about time commitments (something I like!) and suggests a "virtual audition." I can record over two of the band's rehearsal tracks and send them back. Works for me.

So, I take a pass at the tracks and send them along. She is appreciative and complimentary but says she has a few "changes." She sends me a handful of sound clips: either her plunking out a bassline on the keyboard, or clips of her old bassist playing on the tune. ("I really like what he did here.") Mostly she's asking me to play less, which is not such a big deal.

But I asked her, "just so I'm clear, is this still part of the 'audition,' or are we collaborating on the songs now?" She says I should still come in later for an in-person audition, but she'd love it if I could re-record the samples. Okay, sure, I guess.

So, I do that. And because she didn't say it needed to be note for note, and honestly, I don't have the time for this crap, I don't learn all of her old bassist's parts precisely, but I cop the vibe of it. I send it back.

Now, I am asked to go back and study it again and resubmit. And she sends me some weirdly nitpicky notes. Like, if I played three quarter notes and two eighth notes, she sends me four straight quarter notes. I'm thinking: this is still an "audition?" Can we not just work this out in rehearsal? And she says---which I think is telling---"Don't feel bad, all the previous musicians have had trouble with this song."

Am I being a jerk, or is this BL going to be really difficult to work with?

Seems to me, more time has been wasted, trying to not waste time with an actual audition lol. If it were me and I was still interested, I'd say "rather than trying to go over minutia back and forth like this, let's get together and play. We can probably tell pretty quickly, if we mesh." Something like that, anyway.

 

[tekhedd]

I've rarely seen such a unanimity of opinion on TB. And it's clear from the original post that you (OP) know what to do, you're just bound by politeness.

1) I don't know if I'd call these "red flags", that implies that there is some question. Obviously this is not going to work.

2) I wouldn't say "run", this is more of a "backing away slowly" situation.

Also, 3) Thank you for sharing this with us. I get much pleasure from knowing it's not me in this situation.

It’s like hearing your fiancée mention “all her previous fiancés.” Umm, how many? Where did they go?

OMG I dated this woman. Her ex was a liar. And later I was informed the guy before that was a liar. And suddenly I was a liar. Clearly not a good trend.

 

[Cliff Colton]

I hope this lady isn’t working on some self-delusional masterpiece that will never be completed. Maybe there is no band... there is only a borderline psychotic who needs confirmation that her work is so brilliant even musicians can’t understand it.

So the bad news here is, sorry no audition.

 

[Wesley R]

I was in the room when a Sargent in a major metro explained to another person in the room "You need to learn when to walk away from a situation, when to run and when to very fast".

At this point try to get an open honest face to face discussion, and maybe things can work. If not:

 

[MDBass]

Is it just me, or is this songwriter/BL showing me some red flags? Should I try to back out gracefully? This is a long story, but you might enjoy it.

BL is the female singer and songwriter. She has a guitarist and drummer and is just seeking a bassist to round out the group. Because we are all busy adults, she's realistic about time commitments (something I like!) and suggests a "virtual audition." I can record over two of the band's rehearsal tracks and send them back. Works for me.

So, I take a pass at the tracks and send them along. She is appreciative and complimentary but says she has a few "changes." She sends me a handful of sound clips: either her plunking out a bassline on the keyboard, or clips of her old bassist playing on the tune. ("I really like what he did here.") Mostly she's asking me to play less, which is not such a big deal.

But I asked her, "just so I'm clear, is this still part of the 'audition,' or are we collaborating on the songs now?" She says I should still come in later for an in-person audition, but she'd love it if I could re-record the samples. Okay, sure, I guess.

So, I do that. And because she didn't say it needed to be note for note, and honestly, I don't have the time for this crap, I don't learn all of her old bassist's parts precisely, but I cop the vibe of it. I send it back.

Now, I am asked to go back and study it again and resubmit. And she sends me some weirdly nitpicky notes. Like, if I played three quarter notes and two eighth notes, she sends me four straight quarter notes. I'm thinking: this is still an "audition?" Can we not just work this out in rehearsal? And she says---which I think is telling---"Don't feel bad, all the previous musicians have had trouble with this song."

Am I being a jerk, or is this BL going to be really difficult to work with?

Run.

 

[Crash 56]

Are you auditioning to be an equal member of the band, or as a hired gun? If there is no money involved up front, I play my own lines, thank you very much. If you are a hired gun, play what she wants, but get paid first.

 

[Basstigator]

...what's in it for you? 6 figure annual income and royalties to the nth generation? I'd take that in to consideration since I'd have had this one pegged as a weirdo before I hung up the phone. (But, what's in it for me.) A contract maybe? Anything thing short of that, glitter, and gold, would mean don't waste my time bye bye.

 

[Lesfunk]

Direct me to this woman please. I think I can help her out

 

[Richard Lindsey]

BUT yet there have been countless posts over the yrs about people discovering that the new member of the Band doesn't practice their parts, wants to use rehearsal time as learning their parts or just tries to wing it....

None of those things would be sufficiently addressed by this absurd "audition" process. All this kind of auditioning shows you is how much of someone's time you can waste while providing no clear benefit to the person whose time you're wasting.

 

[74hc]

OP, I will tell you about my unrelated experience but parallels yours. City of Sunnyvale had an opening some years ago for a network engineer. I applied for it, meet a bunch of CIOs from adjacent cities as well as Sunnyvale's. I sat in a conference room, in a chair, with tables arranged around it. They took turns and asked questions. I ended the interview in thanks, and walked out the parking lot wonder which city is actually hiring.

Two days later, I receive an email from Sunnyvale's HR stating the opening is closed and they would put my resume on file for future openings. Surprised as I thought the interview went well, but sometimes these things turn out this way. No big deal.

The following week, I get a call from the CIO of Sunnyvale asking me to come in for a follow-up interview while driving to work. Surprised is not that half of it, but due to driving I had to keep the conversation short, agreeing on a date and time. Maybe they changed their minds, or the other candidates fell through?

Prior to the interview, I called my father who has the head of the IT department report to him.. a city in north county San Diego. He asked that person and relayed to me that it's not uncommon for cities to conduct interviews to gauge how they are doing things versus the private sector. He said it is border line unethical and he does not do it.

So, I went in the morning of the interview, but the CIO was not there. I met the "hiring manager" and a staff engineer for the interview. They gave me a paper that had a fictitious company's network topology and asked me to improve it.

Hmm, now I lived in Sunnyvale for about 10 years prior and knew the city well. The topology was theirs, plain and clear. I did know they had issues with their WAN according to the CIO on that earlier call, and from some press articles from my research.

So with suspicions raised, I focused on the access/distro/core system among the buildings, and their AD topology. The "hiring manager" wanted to talk about the WAN, and how to improve it. Clearly, they didn't have good understanding of implementing WANs, and it showed on the topology. They couldn't load balance or fail over without breaking user sessions.

By this time, it's clear to me that they are looking for some free consulting which does not help me put food on the table, provide clothing for my kids, pay the bills, or having things like NBD, or NAD, etc. The "hiring manager" was trying to rush into WAN improvement but time was short.

I left thanking them, and walked out with the engineer to the lobby. While walking to the car, I wondered whether I should bill them for my time.

So, OP, in today's digital studio world, don't do free work for the BL. You don't know if she is taking your tracks into Studio Live or ProTools to finish off her demo, while not paying you. All under the disguise of several "virtual auditions".

My recommendation is to just ask politely. If she gets defensive, or views your question as rude, then you probably don't want to work for her in that band.

 

[GIBrat51]

Is it just me, or is this songwriter/BL showing me some red flags? Should I try to back out gracefully? This is a long story, but you might enjoy it.

BL is the female singer and songwriter. She has a guitarist and drummer and is just seeking a bassist to round out the group. Because we are all busy adults, she's realistic about time commitments (something I like!) and suggests a "virtual audition." I can record over two of the band's rehearsal tracks and send them back. Works for me.

So, I take a pass at the tracks and send them along. She is appreciative and complimentary but says she has a few "changes." She sends me a handful of sound clips: either her plunking out a bassline on the keyboard, or clips of her old bassist playing on the tune. ("I really like what he did here.") Mostly she's asking me to play less, which is not such a big deal.

But I asked her, "just so I'm clear, is this still part of the 'audition,' or are we collaborating on the songs now?" She says I should still come in later for an in-person audition, but she'd love it if I could re-record the samples. Okay, sure, I guess.

So, I do that. And because she didn't say it needed to be note for note, and honestly, I don't have the time for this crap, I don't learn all of her old bassist's parts precisely, but I cop the vibe of it. I send it back.

Now, I am asked to go back and study it again and resubmit. And she sends me some weirdly nitpicky notes. Like, if I played three quarter notes and two eighth notes, she sends me four straight quarter notes. I'm thinking: this is still an "audition?" Can we not just work this out in rehearsal? And she says---which I think is telling---"Don't feel bad, all the previous musicians have had trouble with this song."

Am I being a jerk, or is this BL going to be really difficult to work with?

Are you willing to deal with an obsessive-compulsive, nit-picky, micro-managing control freak? 'Cause, that's what she sounds like, to me ... If you are, then good for you; enjoy your time in Hell. I've worked with (and for) lots of those people, and - I didn't enjoy it much at all... OTOH, if the prospect of a steady diet of picked nits doesn't fill you with joy? Yes. she's waving a Humongous red flag; and yes, you should run away - very far, and very, very fast....

 

[bdplaid]

Is it just me, or is this songwriter/BL showing me some red flags? Should I try to back out gracefully? This is a long story, but you might enjoy it.

BL is the female singer and songwriter. She has a guitarist and drummer and is just seeking a bassist to round out the group. Because we are all busy adults, she's realistic about time commitments (something I like!) and suggests a "virtual audition." I can record over two of the band's rehearsal tracks and send them back. Works for me.

So, I take a pass at the tracks and send them along. She is appreciative and complimentary but says she has a few "changes." She sends me a handful of sound clips: either her plunking out a bassline on the keyboard, or clips of her old bassist playing on the tune. ("I really like what he did here.") Mostly she's asking me to play less, which is not such a big deal.

But I asked her, "just so I'm clear, is this still part of the 'audition,' or are we collaborating on the songs now?" She says I should still come in later for an in-person audition, but she'd love it if I could re-record the samples. Okay, sure, I guess.

So, I do that. And because she didn't say it needed to be note for note, and honestly, I don't have the time for this crap, I don't learn all of her old bassist's parts precisely, but I cop the vibe of it. I send it back.

Now, I am asked to go back and study it again and resubmit. And she sends me some weirdly nitpicky notes. Like, if I played three quarter notes and two eighth notes, she sends me four straight quarter notes. I'm thinking: this is still an "audition?" Can we not just work this out in rehearsal? And she says---which I think is telling---"Don't feel bad, all the previous musicians have had trouble with this song."

Am I being a jerk, or is this BL going to be really difficult to work with?

I'd be annoyed. But if I still had any interest, I'd want to do an in-person audition/jam and get straight:
1. Am I sideman just playing parts given to me,
2. Am I a collaborator writing the bass parts and given song writing credit for it.

These things matter. Otherwise they can suck the talent out of you and give nothing back.

 

[tr4252]

I've met so many singers and band leaders who are like someone who buys a pretty plant and then neglects to even water it. How depressing.

Instead of working for her I'd probably offer to teach her how to write a score (for a modest fee). I've known and worked with the type who hear a composition in their heads but can't (or won't) express it in terms that the other musicians can understand without a lot of time wasting trial and error, waiting for the singer/songwriter to identify the mugshot, so to speak. I've never enjoyed this type of interaction.

It sounds like the O.P. has already decided to pass. From what I've read, I think I would, though I would need to know what the band sounds like, which we can't, I guess.

Good luck either way, O.P.

Tom

 

[higain617]

she's asking you to write the bass parts to her music for free so she can use them. but maybe not use you to play them.

the "all the previous musicians had trouble with this song" comment is the clincher. Nobody sticks around with her. or she churns musicians.

I'd cut her off

x2. I think she's trying a free session work scam.

 

[Pilgrim]

Is it just me, or is this songwriter/BL showing me some red flags? Should I try to back out gracefully? This is a long story, but you might enjoy it.

BL is the female singer and songwriter. She has a guitarist and drummer and is just seeking a bassist to round out the group. Because we are all busy adults, she's realistic about time commitments (something I like!) and suggests a "virtual audition." I can record over two of the band's rehearsal tracks and send them back. Works for me.

So, I take a pass at the tracks and send them along. She is appreciative and complimentary but says she has a few "changes." She sends me a handful of sound clips: either her plunking out a bassline on the keyboard, or clips of her old bassist playing on the tune. ("I really like what he did here.") Mostly she's asking me to play less, which is not such a big deal.

But I asked her, "just so I'm clear, is this still part of the 'audition,' or are we collaborating on the songs now?" She says I should still come in later for an in-person audition, but she'd love it if I could re-record the samples. Okay, sure, I guess.

So, I do that. And because she didn't say it needed to be note for note, and honestly, I don't have the time for this crap, I don't learn all of her old bassist's parts precisely, but I cop the vibe of it. I send it back.

Now, I am asked to go back and study it again and resubmit. And she sends me some weirdly nitpicky notes. Like, if I played three quarter notes and two eighth notes, she sends me four straight quarter notes. I'm thinking: this is still an "audition?" Can we not just work this out in rehearsal? And she says---which I think is telling---"Don't feel bad, all the previous musicians have had trouble with this song."

Am I being a jerk, or is this BL going to be really difficult to work with?

Get out. If your time isn't worth anything to her, you don't want to go there. And if she's this picky about an audition, she will be a nightmare to play with.

Remember, you are auditioning HER, as well. She has failed the audition.

 

[bdplaid]

When I hear someone say something like this, I always think: hmm....what's the common denominator here?..oh, yeah, it's YOU.

I think the common denominator is the word "previous," as in, they left. And, is it the song with which they are having trouble, or the author of said tune?