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Red flags? Should I run?
- Thread starter DoctorZee
- Start date
Yup, this definitely looks like an it's-been-real-nice-meeting-you kind of situation. Exit and move on!
Could be. Not to sound flippant but welcome to the world of music-for-hire. Until leaders start trusting your judgment and are confident that you're someone who can be worked with, this is far from unusual. They want you to get what they're doing first before you change things.
Every Broadway show I've done -- and I mean the ones in NYC -- have the convention of half-hour "notes" (half-hour as in a half hour before the show; the notes might take just a minute or two). It's where the musical director sits with the band and delivers critiques of the previous performance. Sometimes they're his notes, sometimes it's a cast note or the stage manager's or the sound person's or, worse, the composer made a biannual visit unannounced last night. In musicals with somewhat loose books and no conductor, it's easy to stray from the composer's intent, or to play a little too loud, or embellish a cadence a little too much, or rush something, or get a little too stylistic, a million tedious little things. You may have played your 1000th show but those notes are the part of the job. You just take the note and try not to commit the same offense that evening.
There's a YouTube video of Paul Simon criticizing Herbie Hancock's choices on one of the former's songs. Herbie took the note graciously and did it Paul's way even though you could tell he thought his own approach was better. I figure if Herbie can take a note without making it personal, so can we all.
If you ever want to get into session playing this will prepare your tolerance for that, where there's a microscope on you and a half dozen people in the control room with different ideas of how you should play it.
Yeah, I’m good with that from a Broadway MD or Paul Simon. I wasn’t feeling it from the chick I met on Facebook who is a little pitchy and wants to play townie bars.
Classic TB. The situation was resolved about 3 pages ago and I'm still getting advice...
I don’t know about anybody else, but I answered the original post. Why on earth would anybody bother reading nine pages on a subject like this?
And THAT’s why the advice keeps rolling in.
I dunno, I think I probably read 9 pages on whether or not it’s ok to wear shorts on stage. I thought wasting time reading nonsense was the whole point of this place.
You've officially become a session musician! I think part of the decision is based on whether you want your own creative license to come up with your own bass parts or play basically written out parts. Both have their place, it's a personal decision.
Sounds like she has already tied up more of your time than if you had done an in person audition. Doesn’t sound particularly respectful of you or your time, IMO. I’d pass if i were in your shoes, especially if its any sign of the way she operates in general.
Everything she has done sounds reasonable to me, if she is actually hiring you to be in her band.
You stated yourself something like you didn't do exactly what she asked you to do because you don't have time for this crap. Not only is that obviously the wrong attitude in this situation, but it also means that you should not take any offense to, or be annoyed at all by, her sending further corrections. If someone you are trying to work for tells you they want something such and such a way, and you don't do it, then what do you expect them to say in response? I think coming back with more detailed instructions was actually quite generous on her part. I probably would have cut you out at that point, myself.
So, IMO, you have no right to be annoyed or bothered. Of course you have every right to lose interest, if playing exact parts is something you don't want to do. But you should not be bothered by anything she did IMO.
If you like the songs and think you want to give playing with them a shot, then get together with them and see how it goes. You aren't signing a marriage contract or anything. How can it hurt to go play and see how you click with them in person?
If, OTOH, she just wants you to "join a band," then it's a different story. If you are "joining" a band, then it is expected that you have some compositional control, at least in your own corner.
You stated yourself something like you didn't do exactly what she asked you to do because you don't have time for this crap. Not only is that obviously the wrong attitude in this situation, but it also means that you should not take any offense to, or be annoyed at all by, her sending further corrections. If someone you are trying to work for tells you they want something such and such a way, and you don't do it, then what do you expect them to say in response? I think coming back with more detailed instructions was actually quite generous on her part. I probably would have cut you out at that point, myself.
So, IMO, you have no right to be annoyed or bothered. Of course you have every right to lose interest, if playing exact parts is something you don't want to do. But you should not be bothered by anything she did IMO.
If you like the songs and think you want to give playing with them a shot, then get together with them and see how it goes. You aren't signing a marriage contract or anything. How can it hurt to go play and see how you click with them in person?
If, OTOH, she just wants you to "join a band," then it's a different story. If you are "joining" a band, then it is expected that you have some compositional control, at least in your own corner.
a long time ago i went to a job interview at a chain store body shop that said it would paint your car in 1/7th of a week......I was 16....the boss told me,,and about 15 other guys that didn't speak much English to sand some cars to see how good we did as part of the interview.....around noon we all got sent home and no one got hired. This sounds a lot like that.
You think it’s resolved until you get a message that says: “I’m not going to be ignored!”Classic TB. The situation was resolved about 3 pages ago and I'm still getting advice...
Except that according to the OP, she DIDN'T do that. She didn't communicate exactly what she wanted him to do, and he didn't refuse to do it. Her failure to communicate clearly and make her requests reasonable is precisely why there was a problem to begin with. Read the very first post again. I would have politely declined after the first request for "changes."
This is not how the OP described it at all. When she came back to him after he first submitted tracks, she requested changes, and provided example tracks. His response to that was, "And because she didn't say it needed to be note for note, and honestly, I don't have the time for this crap, I don't learn all of her old bassist's parts precisely, but I cop the vibe of it."
That quote right there really tells you all you need to know about the situation, IMO. He doesn't view this as being "hired." He views it as joining a band. That is absolutely fine...but the question is what the band lady wants. As I said, her responses are unreasonable if she is just looking for a guy to join her band. But they are perfectly reasonable if she is a bona-fide BL, and she's hiring a bassist.
When you do your own thing on a part/track, then a BL says they have changes, and provides example tracks, then you learn them, note for note. Maybe you change them however you want in the end, but you at least learn how they are "supposed" to be first. When they give you an example track, that's what they want you to do. Does it mean it can't ever be changed? Nope. But learning how it goes is what you do – not say, "Well, she didn't explicitly say to learn it note for note, and I don't have time for this crap anyhow."
The way the OP described it, she sounded pretty darned crystal clear...and that's even from a story written from his point of view. She says I have changes. She says this is what your bass lines should be. He comes back with something else. She corrects him again. Perfectly reasonable.
Her responding with things like he described, e.g. the measure should be four quarter notes instead of three quarter notes and two eighth notes, is perfectly reasonable to me.
No, that pretty much is how he described it.
It's fine if you're HIRED and are working toward refining a performance or recording. Not fine for an unpaid audition. What the songwriter "wants" is only one factor in this. Frankly, if what she wants is unreasonable, who cares what she wants?
A BL may be entitled to some expectations, but until you're hired, those expectations don't mean much. A BL is not a BL unless you're in the band. Just like a session leader is not a session leader unless you've been hired for the session. No one gets to say what your bass lines "should" be unless they're hiring you to play them, or unless you're in a band with them and you agree to play it the way they want you to. They can always ask, but they have no right to demand, or expect, anything.
After the first "virtual audition" recording, none of what she wants is reasonable for an audition. Because an audition, pretty much by definition, means you're NOT IN THE BAND/PROJECT. So she doesn't get to waste the auditioner's time like that. If she had hired him, she'd have a right to ask this stuff. But the whole reason this is--or, rather, was (since the OP made the decision to bail a number of posts back)--a problem is precisely that she HASN'T hired him but is expecting him to put in the time as if she had.
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I’m still trying to find out if she’s hot. That’s why.
