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REDDI vs P15 Poll Time. 2017 update coming soon!

After all the clips which one?

  • Total voters
    109
#201
Dave Hill said:
After spending some (like, way too much) time with the REDDI, P-15, and Arkham Zephyr (also B-15 based, with a Cinemag OT), I can say that the P-15 and the Zephyr can get very close to the REDDI starting with a bass cut; you can hear the lows for the two in the tracks (P-15, DI-3 and Zephyr NDI-4). They're gone in the subsequent P-15 track (DI-4). With the Zephyr, I use an FDeck set at 60-80 hz(!)...Voila. The REDDI does not have the high extension the others have either. To my ears it has a more narrow sound with, as someone else put it, rich harmonics...and that is what makes the REDDI. It a great, balanced, tone right in a sweet spot.

But, that's also what makes it seem somewhat limited for what I would want. I'm sure in pro settings with all the $$ equipment it's a great starting (and maybe finishing) point, but I want/need something a little more versatile, and I mean only a little. After awhile of messing with this stuff, the REDDI started to sound a little flat compared to the other two. Obviously, due in large part to the tone control capabilities (especailly on the Zephyr - great unit). As far as what to send to the board, I'm a firm believer in "You can dial it out, but you cant dial it in".

The "sub-lows" and lows - it's funny how so much attention is given to a cab's response "down to 30Hz", and then everyone is buying Fdecks to cut off everything below 35Hz. I've come to learn that the stuff below 30-60Hz should be used...umm.....tastefully. I think the good FOH and studio guys have been doing this to us fairly regularly. IMO, these freq's out of control can trash the sound, particularly live. I use my FDeck for every show, with the Zephyr, 2k watts, and an F212. It's amazing how much better the tone is with it. It's not too hard to imagine that the REDDI (which if I understand right was created very specifically for the studio) was engineered with this in mind.
Click to expand...

Interestingly enough my main amp is a reissue V4b, IMO it's as good as it gets for something with fabulous tone and a reasonable weight to carry around, it's not a micro head but it's not much larger or heavier than the cab you cart along with a micro head. My swiss army amp it a Acoustic Image Clarus +, which has a HPF and to elumlate a B15 or my V4b style tone the first thing I do is engage the HPF, boost the bass and cut mids and treble. Get's me as close as I can with that gear. I prefer to take out the V4b or my Reddi, neither of which require use of the Fdeck HPF with my upright. To me the clips of the P15 to lesser degree has that the tone associated with the ultra hi and ultra low engaged. Not often my thing but gets occasional use when I have the V4B out, not an option with the Reddi. No point here just comparing notes...
 
#202
Trying to get @Dave Hill to cut some clips with these DI's and his double bass. Something else to dissect.
Also trying to get him to dig deep and find the inspiration/energy to take the DI's to his show tomorrow night and split the show into thirds and try each one of them out live in a full band setting.
The soundman is usually good about recording all the shows. So we would have some live clips to check out.

Come on Dave!
 
#203
Mark Reccord said:
Josh Broughton makes a HPF/LPF pedal. :D

I have a tube DI prototype on my bench with switchable HP and LP filters. Flat, 30Hz and 60Hz for the HP and flat, 5k and 2k for the LP. Rolloff is first order so it's a pretty gentle slope but the best I could do within the other parameters of the circuit. They're pretty musical to my ears.
Click to expand...
I got one of his HPF's recently. It's very nice.
 
#204
10cc said:
Trying to get @Dave Hill to cut some clips with these DI's and his double bass. Something else to dissect.
Also trying to get him to dig deep and find the inspiration/energy to take the DI's to his show tomorrow night and split the show into thirds and try each one of them out live in a full band setting.
The soundman is usually good about recording all the shows. So we would have some live clips to check out.

Come on Dave!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't get to involved in the DB clips, over on the DB side it's a pretty common understanding that what works well for one player, his bass and choice of pickup doesn't carry the commonalities of someone comparing a jazz or a P bass. On the super rare occasion I need FOH I use an AMT mic, I don't do any studio stuff with my DB but if I did it would certainly involve microphones. That being said I wouldn't complain if I had to listen to some DB clips.
 
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#205
Dave Hill said:
The "sub-lows" and lows - it's funny how so much attention is given to a cab's response "down to 30Hz", and then everyone is buying Fdecks to cut off everything below 35Hz. I've come to learn that the stuff below 30-60Hz should be used...umm.....tastefully. I think the good FOH and studio guys have been doing this to us fairly regularly. IMO, these freq's out of control can trash the sound, particularly live. I use my FDeck for every show, with the Zephyr, 2k watts, and an F212. It's amazing how much better the tone is with it. It's not too hard to imagine that the REDDI (which if I understand right was created very specifically for the studio) was engineered with this in mind.
Click to expand...
There is an old joke among sound engineers: Don't you just love the sound at 40hz? Me neither.....:D
 
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#206
Dave Hill said:
I believe all three of the units I was speaking of have the Baxandall/James circuit, which i thought was pretty flat.(?) I think they all use a Cinemag OT, although probably not identical (I do realize there is much more to it).
So you believe that either the REDDI boosts mids, or the others cut them (intentionally or not)?
The Duncan Tonestack Calculator download is pretty interesting to see how some of these classic circuits look.
Click to expand...

You can get them "pretty flat" but it's really difficult to get them totally flat with real world components, pots in particular. I know that the B15s (and clones) I've had on the bench do have a slight mid scoop with the EQ knobs at centre. It's subtle but it's there. The filters are broad so even a slight deviation off flat will affect a fairly wide range of frequencies and is audible. Of course this is all conjecture on part. I'd like to put them all on the bench and plot their responses. I can test the SVT because I have one but I don't have any of the others. Another possibility is indeed that the REDDI might have a bit of a mid boost but not owing to any EQ. It may be due to the distortion characteristics. 3 or 4% of low order harmonic distortion might well sound like a bit of a mid boost with a bass guitar signal. This wouldn't show up on a straight frequency response plot. The 6N1P tube is known to have fairly high distortion in single ended circuits with no feedback so I think that's plausible. That type of circuit is also quite device dependent so you might expect actual differences when tube rolling.

Anyway, cool thread. At least something good came from the original thread despite all the bickering in it. :D
 
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#207
Mark Reccord said:
I can test the SVT because I have one but I don't have any of the others
Click to expand...
Please.
Do.

I'd love to know what the curve looks like, because, I think the SVT sound is a force...especially in the music I play/like.
It'd be nice to take into account, somehow, the 810 SVT cab... because as I've found in other head to head tests (@10cc's house btw) the cab has a lot to do with it. Off topic, but another example of how lows may not be "where it's at".

More on topic...a flaw in my logic seems to be the Direct track (DI-1) which a few people preferred and/or thought was the REDDI (and wasn't too far off). I don't think the old Korg has a HPF or much tone shaping on the input... so, what gives there?
 
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#208
Mark Reccord said:
Another possibility is indeed that the REDDI might have a bit of a mid boost but not owing to any EQ. It may be due to the distortion characteristics. 3 or 4% of low order harmonic distortion might well sound like a bit of a mid boost with a bass guitar signal.l
Click to expand...

Again, the rich harmonics of the REDDI.

peterpalmieri said:
To me the clips of the P15 to lesser degree has that the tone associated with the ultra hi and ultra low engaged.
Click to expand...

I hear this too, and its not a bad thing.
 
#209
I've loved this thread though some of the technical stuff is over my head.

I'm looking for help with the order of my pedals, as my P-15 is arriving this Friday. Currently, I'm using and in order, the Peterson Stomp Classic, the Origin Cali76 Compact Bass to my Tech 21 SansAmp Character Series VT Bass DI. By the way, my go-to amp is the Mesa Walkabout into an Avatar 12-6.
 
#210
geowis said:
I've loved this thread though some of the technical stuff is over my head.

I'm looking for help with the order of my pedals, as my P-15 is arriving this Friday. Currently, I'm using and in order, the Peterson Stomp Classic, the Origin Cali76 Compact Bass to my Tech 21 SansAmp Character Series VT Bass DI. By the way, my go-to amp is the Mesa Walkabout into an Avatar 12-6.
Click to expand...
If were me I'd go into the P-15 then out of the P-15 (dry) then resume normal chain into amp. Your balanced pre signal out heads on to the house.
Unless you wanna try different sequences then by all means try it anyway you can. Not familiar with the Mesa but you might be able to bypass the amps preamp section and tap directly into the power section with the tone of the P-15 from either the balanced out (xlr) or if your getting a new version the extra 1/4 (wet) out. Then you'll be getting the P-15 with your amps power through your avatar.
Or try and incorporate your other pedal into the line in various places. There is many of ways to use this unit.
 
#211
Took both DI's to a gig last night. Soundman liked "the black one". Said it had more presence.

image.jpeg
 
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#217
my P-15 will be rackable with the H/LPF built inline with the DI. the tone stack will have a balanced out. i can use either output to my board or (bridged stereo) amp. also, i'll have the option of running both outputs to separate amp channels to blend or compare.
i'm trying to budget for a second F115 cab to take full advantage of this setup.
this is something i've been wanting for years. i talked to Mr Broughton about it and he's going to make it happen. i can hardly wait!
 
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#218
pacojas said:
my P-15 will be rackable with the H/LPF built inline with the DI. the tone stack will have a balanced out. i can use either output to my board or (bridged stereo) amp. also, i'll have the option of running both outputs to separate amp channels to blend or compare.
i'm trying to budget for a second F115 cab to take full advantage of this setup.
this is something i've been wanting for years. i talked to Mr Broughton about it and he's going to make it happen. i can hardly wait!
Click to expand...

Very cool setup!

I may have to order something similar later one... I wonder how many P-15s I can order before @Azure Skies starts thinking I am stalking him...
 
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