Replace P-bass pickup or not?

[Deacon_Blues]

Hi,

I'd been interested in getting a P-bass for years, but never tried anything moderately priced that I really liked until I recently found Invalid Link Removed (the black version) by the Swedish brand Green (made in Asia though). Overall, I really love this bass and it's exceptionally good value for the money, priced only at €375. My only issue is that when playing moderately loud at rehearsals I feel I lose some bottom end when moving up to the G and D strings. Not by a very large degree, but at least noticeable to my ears.

I wonder if this is solely due to the nature of the split pickup's lower half being closer to the bridge, or if I possibly could get this issue fixed (or at least improved) by replacing the pickup, or maybe the strings? The original pickup is a Kent Armstrong that has a quite gritty sound. Not sure if I'm super fond of it, but I've also probably never been as pleased with how a bass sits in the mix before. (I have played bass for >15 years but I have virtually no experience whatsoever with P basses. My main bass for the last 12 years has been a Fender MIJ '62 reissue jazz bass, tuned BEAD for the last 5 of those years).

I've googled on reversed P-bass pickups, but anyway I'm not really interested in doing the major modifications to the bass that would mean. I'm still using the original strings (D'Addario .045 - .100 rounds), but I'm considering changing them for a set of D'Addario Chromes flats when they're dead. Not sure about this though.

So.. what are your thoughts or recommendations on this issue?

 

[96tbird]

Raise that side of the pickup a bit.

It isn’t the pickup position, Smaller strings mean less bottom; it’s physics. You can always move up the neck on the E and A strings rather than across.

Yes, a Pbass is the bomb in the mix. The mids cut through beautifully with attitude. They don’t sound as cool AT HOME ALONE as tricked out active basses do, but in a mix, they never get lost like fancy basses eq’d all outta whack can and do, depening on the operator of said eq.

 

[Deacon_Blues]

Thanks for your reply, 96tbird! Yes I know it's physics, but none of my other basses have this issue, and I already move my hand a lot horizontally/play higher up the neck to get those fatter tones when that's what I want. It's not always practical though. Thanks for the suggestion to raise the lower pickup, I'll probably try that as a first step. I've actually lowered both pickup halves quite a bit to avoid the loud noise that occurs when a string hits the pickup poles (bad habits...), but that concerns primarily the upper pup half. Perhaps the bottom end response of the lower one suffers too much from the increased distance due to the thinner strings...?

I agree 100% with your last paragraph. Fancy active basses has never been my cup of tea anyway, simplicity is king in my world.

I'm by the way also checking out various reviews on P-bass pickups, and I found this review below of Seymour Duncan P-bass pickups to be extremely good. Don't really know which one sounds the best though, but I might well swap the pup for one of these just out of pure curiosity.

 

[Paulabass]

Adjust the pickups first. It may save you some money, and aggravation.

 

[96tbird]

Thanks for your reply, 96tbird! Yes I know it's physics, but none of my other basses have this issue, and I already move my hand a lot horizontally/play higher up the neck to get those fatter tones when that's what I want. It's not always practical though. Thanks for the suggestion to raise the lower pickup, I'll probably try that as a first step. I've actually lowered both pickup halves quite a bit to avoid the loud noise that occurs when a string hits the pickup poles (bad habits...), but that concerns primarily the upper pup half. Perhaps the bottom end response of the lower one suffers too much from the increased distance due to the thinner strings...?

I agree 100% with your last paragraph. Fancy active basses has never been my cup of tea anyway, simplicity is king in my world.

I'm by the way also checking out various reviews on P-bass pickups, and I found this review below of Seymour Duncan P-bass pickups to be extremely good. Don't really know which one sounds the best though, but I might well swap the pup for one of these just out of pure curiosity.

Yes, they suffer more from lower pickup height than the fat strings because they have less mass and have a smaller amplitude of deflection when plucked than fat strings = lower signal induced in the coils.

 

[Bass4LifeRS]

Get a geezer, install yourself. Easy.

 

[Yahboy]

You need V-mod pbass pickup.

 

[Deacon_Blues]

Adjust the pickups first. It may save you some money, and aggravation.

Thanks. Yes I'll do that first.

Yes, they suffer more from lower pickup height than the fat strings because they have less mass and have a smaller amplitude of deflection when plucked than fat strings = lower signal induced in the coils.

Makes sense. Thanks!

Get a geezer, install yourself. Easy.

The Geezer signature EMG pickups you mean? Seems quite easy to install yes, but IDK if I want to replace all electronics. Btw, why on earth aren't all electronics on a bass made like this with solderless connectors?

You need V-mod pbass pickup.

Checked that out too, but I couldn't find much information on it, especially sound samples. Does it solve the issue I speak about?

 

[JW56789]

Even if you're not into doing your own setups, the easy way to check it:

Get a ruler, and adjust the pickups to where the distance from the bottom of the string to the top of the pickups is the same under all four strings. For now just use where they are, and even them up.

When you finish, they will typically look like a roof, that is the two pickups will be higher at the split between them (under the A and D strings) than they are under the E and G strings. Once you have all four even, listen carefully (this works better with new strings) and see what you think. Closer to the strings is louder, lowering back into the body will lose volume.

With a little adjustment, you can see where you're at. Nothing wrong with new pickups, but this E-A/D-G volume mismatch is common with this split pickup when they're out of adjustment, and this would occur with any pickup you'd install, so do this first. To be even on all four strings, you'll probably wind up with the D/G side a bit higher than the E/A side, but the only 'correct answer' is what sound right to you, so have at it.

Should you re-string this one for BEAD like your Jazz, this will become even more important, as that big B will get louder than those other three real fast if not adjusted for that change.

 

[Deacon_Blues]

Even if you're not into doing your own setups, the easy way to check it:

Get a ruler, and adjust the pickups to where the distance from the bottom of the string to the top of the pickups is the same under all four strings. For now just use where they are, and even them up.

When you finish, they will typically look like a roof, that is the two pickups will be higher at the split between them (under the A and D strings) than they are under the E and G strings. Once you have all four even, listen carefully (this works better with new strings) and see what you think. Closer to the strings is louder, lowering back into the body will lose volume.

With a little adjustment, you can see where you're at. Nothing wrong with new pickups, but this E-A/D-G volume mismatch is common with this split pickup when they're out of adjustment, and this would occur with any pickup you'd install, so do this first. To be even on all four strings, you'll probably wind up with the D/G side a bit higher than the E/A side, but the only 'correct answer' is what sound right to you, so have at it.

Should you re-string this one for BEAD like your Jazz, this will become even more important, as that big B will get louder than those other three real fast if not adjusted for that change.

Thank you for your detailed reply! I'm all for doing my own setups. The procedure you mention is more exact than anything I've done before though, I usually go only by ear when adjusting the pickups.

I think I might have found now what causes this issue. When I look at the pickup from the top, I see that the E & A strings are very well aligned with the pickup poles, while the D and G strings are not. That pickup should be moved down approx. 3mm (1/8") for the strings to right in the middle between the pickup poles, and that isn't really easily fixed. The pickguard is at least very exactly cut, and the bridge is such that I cannot adjust the string spacing (which I wouldn't like to do either, it's perfect as it is). Guess I need to contact Green about it....

 

[Paulabass]

Pickups very rarely line up perfectly with the poles. One instance where close IS good enough.

 

[Deacon_Blues]

Paulabass: You're probably right, as I find this bass very playable despite this issue. Anyway, I thought a picture could help here. Is this close enough? (I took the photo from quite high up with a tele lens, so the photo wouldn't lie too much due to influence of the perspective).

 

[mikewalker]

You could also try using HEAVIER STRINGS for the D and G. Have you tried one of those "balanced sets"? I haven't had a chance to install my set yet, but the GHS ones are reputed to even things out a little... TalkBass.com > GHS > Balanced Nickels

 

[Deacon_Blues]

You could also try using HEAVIER STRINGS for the D and G. Have you tried one of those "balanced sets"? I haven't had a chance to install my set yet, but the GHS ones are reputed to even things out a little... TalkBass.com > GHS > Balanced Nickels

Sure, that has crossed my mind too.

 

[dagrev]

You received great advice above. Seriously try those before a PUP change. I had the same problem with a 1963 Pbass that had 1967 pups in it. The E and A sounded good, but the D and G thin and honky with minds. Literally it sounded like two different PUPs. I finally changed them out for some Klein's that were formulated to match those of 1962. That fixed it. Those PUPs sound great and are very reasonable. You don't necessarily need those as I was trying to get the bass to sound like it was supposed to given it's age, but there are some great PUPs out there. I have some Nordy's in one bass (Regenerate) and they are great sounding. I say all this to indicate you may have to do a PUP swap in the end, but try other things first. Try some of the GHS Balanced Nickles as mentioned or the Precision Flats!!! They are killer in a Pbass. The DAs you are using and the Chromes you might try have never impressed me as having something special. But that's just me.

 

[Deacon_Blues]

Thank you dagrev for your reply, and sorry for chiming in rather late.

I adjusted the DG pickup up a bit now, and at least while playing at home with headphones the signal is at least stronger now. Still haven't tested it after the adjustment through my amp though or at decent volumes, need to wait for the next band rehearsal to do that properly.

I'll check out the GHS strings. Long time since I've seen those in my corner of the world though. About a decade ago when I was following this forum more frequently, I tested out a large selection of flatwound strings on my Jazz: The Chromes, Fender flats, TI flats, La Bella Deep talking flats, Rotosound Steve Harris flats, Pyramid Gold flats... but no GHS ones. Basically I came to the conclusion that what exact flats I'm using is not a huge deal, as long as the string tension is in the right ballpark (TI and Rotosound SH flats aren't. With the TI flats, the sound is also too different between the two string pairs we're discussing here, so while they sound quite good in other people's hands they're not my cup of tea).

By the way, I'm getting really interested in the new Fender V-mod pickup. It sounds really awesome in the video on Youtube where Sean Hurley is demonstrating the new American Professional P-bass:

 

[Aaron Houts]

I have the V Mod on my AmPro P5 and I really like it.

 

[Slapndbayass]

Could also be your neck and body don't produce the last two strings well enough. The nature of the beast as it is hit and miss.

Try replacing the neck screws to some high grade stainless steel screws to get a tighter connection.

Before blaming the pickups, listen to your bass acoustically with your ear up against the horn and see if the tones/string volume you think missing are there are not.

 

[Axstar]

Nah. Slow down! It is way too easy to pitch in your favorite P pickup into the mix. The stock strings on the bass might not be very good. D'Addario brand appears on a lot of stock roundwound strings, and they are fairly generic. Plus, the bass will have been sitting in a warehouse, strung up to pitch, for any length of time first. The strings might not be at their best, even when the bass was new. In this order:

1) Adjust the pickup height to try and balance the output per string. Take into account the radius of the neck, and don't just adjust the pickup halves to be flat.

2) Replace the strings! If you go down the route of Chromes, give them a bit of time to bed in and mellow out. Chromes might sound uneven out the bag, but their tone will level out over time.

3) If you are still unhappy, consider new pickups. However, identify what you don't like about the current pickup and work from there.

I've had a few import Kent Armstrong P bass pickups, notably a 'hot' Alnico set and a 'hot' Ceramic set. the Ceramics were quite scooped sounding whereas the Alnico was fatter in the mids with less bass on tap. Both are a matter of taste, but the stock Kent Armstrong pickup in your bass isn't necessarily bad at all.

 

[Deacon_Blues]

Changed the pickup height as I already mentioned, and it felt better now on the rehearsal with my blues band on Sunday. I didn't even think of this issue anymore.

@Slapndbayass: Thanks for the input and suggestions. But this bass actually has incredibly good sustain and strong tone acoustically on all strings, despite it's rather low price tag. So I won't be replacing any neck screws as I see it now. I also haven't noticed any dead notes yet.

@Axstar: That's probably the wisest order yes, but I'm more interested in the pickup's effect on the tone than the strings, which I have experimented with a lot over the years. I'm very experimental by nature, and if money wasn't an issue I would try a bunch of different pickups to check out which one I like the most. I feel I have way too little experience about how the pickup itself affects the tone, although I know it's a quite huge factor after checking out tons of videos on youtube. I'd like to learn more about that, and that's probably the main reason I'm interested in changing the pickup. Not that it sounds bad, because it doesn't (at least now when I adjusted the height). On the rehearsal, I did a quick comparison with my old J, and that one definitely have a stronger bass response than this P, that instead has strong, warm mids. Based on your description, it's probably an alnico set. I wouldn't mind a slightly stronger bass response though.