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Replace tweeter with a 6" ?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by kringle77, Sep 23, 2005.


  1. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    Would it be safe to take the tweeter out of a cab and replace it with a small paper cone speaker like a 6"? I hate tweeters but would like a bit more high end than a 10" can give. I have thought about try the eminence B102's in one of my 2x10 cabs also.
     
  2. Steve

    Steve

    Aug 10, 2001
    You would probably have to seal the area off and create a little box for the speaker to sit in so the air pressure from the woofers wouldn't beat it to death....then that would mess with the tuning of the main box a little....

    It'd be worth looking into. Tweeters sound WAY better that horns and give a better dispersion to my ears.
     
  3. thedoctor

    thedoctor

    Jun 20, 2005
    I been there and tried that. It is rather disappointing. You would be better off trying a midrange compression horn with a huge wattage rating and a really good crossover/protection system. The smaller paper or mylar cone speakers do not perform as well as you would think they might. Please do not even consider piezos. A good compression horn from Pyle or Allparts has a lot of high-fill ability and they are cheap. I went as far as putting 8 4 1/4" high-power mylars in a cab to see if they might beat out a compression horn and it was a waste of time. IMHO
     
  4. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Not if you go to B102s. It's whizzer goes as high as the average 6 anyway. If you go for a mid use the Alpha 8MR. Its sealed back doesn't require a sub-enclosure and it has enough sensitivity to keep up with the woofers.
     
  5. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Sinny, Oztraya
    If you use a well designed crossover, active or passive, and an appropriate flare for the freq range of use, then it won't need a huge power rating. Compression drivers are reqularly >10dB more sensitive than cones so need less power for the same SPL and the crossover will reduce the voltage drive to them appropriately to get he power applied to the correct level.
    We obviously have different ideas about what "good" means.
     
  6. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    ...don't know about all the "expert" post here but the 6" in my Berg NV215 & in my Accugroove 2x10L sound beautiful! You definetly hear a difference with them thats not harsh or compromising at all, and definetly NOT a waste of time.

    I don't think these two reputable cab builders would bother if it didn't matter or hinder their products...


    my $0.02
    ~S~

    PS: Please post your experiences with actual 6" loaded cabs to justify your pros/cons...

    One more note, I don't care for tweeters or horns at all. the only tweeters are The AG silk dome's in Marks that are pleasant. I'd prefer a 6" over a tweet/horn anyday...
     
  7. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Sinny, Oztraya
    I've heard this argument a lot over the years: "so and so uses part X in their design so it must be good". Well the designer of that product has a lot of reasons for choosing that part, which may or may not have a lot to do with the sonics and you have no easy way of substituting another component or design, eg 2" CD and flare to see whether that would work better or be more preferable to your ears. Other factors such as size, weight, cost, local availability, type, design, brand name (recognition and marketing), designer's preferences etc all have parts to play. This is what engineering is about; balance of compromises. Now because you like the two cabs mentioned, doesn't mean I will or the guy standing next to me will, so the designer's choices will be rendered moot in these cases. That's also why we have diversity in product design and choice.
    There aren't many cabs available locally with smaller mid drivers, so I'm not going to comment on stuff I haven't used. However, I've designed and built a bit of PA gear, fixed and mobile, and I much prefer a good compression driver and flare, or a well designed flare using a smaller driver in it. It also depends on how you're going to implement the smaller driver as to how it will work within the total system.
    You're entitled to your opinion, and that's fine. However, the vast majority of HF CD's/flares used in bass gear are crap and/or poorly implemented wrt crossovers and radiation patterns IME. Not going to comment on Mark (Accugroove's) speakers, as I've never heard them.
     
  8. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    ...as far as the 2 I've mentioned, I've never read a complaint YET...you should open your horizons, even as a "designer"...


    ~S~


    PS: As far as "other companies" using mid-drivers, give me a break, do a search from A-Z & see who use them. There's quite a few...
     
  9. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Sinny, Oztraya
    Great. As I said, I've never heard them personally so no comment. The most reliable auditory opinions for me, are mine, not something I read secondhand online. When I get to hear them, I may think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread, until them they are an unknown to me.
    I've done my testing with what I can get and am happy with my results. If you want to send me some specific drivers to test, I'm happy to do so and comment, but at this point in time I have no interest shelling out for some. I also have no fixed opinions on what works, and an open to a lot of different ideas and technologies. If it works for me, I'll use it.
    I'm in Australia where the variety of cabs is much lower than NY or the US generally. I know there's a lot of other stuff out there, (but do you notice) if I haven't heard and/or measured it, no comment. My balance of design decisions is based upon what I decide works best; others make different decisions and I respect that.
    Note: I am not "knocking" other designer's choices, just saying that based upon my experience, my results differ.
     
  10. Doug Parent

    Doug Parent Supporting Member

    May 31, 2004
    San Diego, Ca.
    Dealer Nordstrand Pickups.
    I'm not qualified to say anything else other than Eminence makes a 6" sealed back line array speaker that looks interesting, but how it matches up spl wise etc with other drivers is fodder for the better informed.

    My only input is my bias towards good quality horns with high power ratings crossed over lower enough to handle the midrange area say, staring at 1.5khz and up. B&C makes great stuff.
     
  11. el_Kabong

    el_Kabong

    Jul 11, 2005
    I replaced the stock tweeter in an ampeg 410hlf with one of the 5in aluminium hartke hi frequency drivers and was happy with the result.
     
  12. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I guess that I will try out some eminence wizzers in the near future. The only problem is that they only come in 8 ohms. 16 would be more desirable for use in 2x10 cabs.
     
  13. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    I dunno from 6" stuff, but I will say that my SWR Baby Blue 2x8 has a 5" coned speaker for mids and highs that does real well. As previously mentioned, berg, accugroove and some others put 6'ers into cabs that I think have plenty of high end for me...










    Although they might not be enough for KJung, who adds selenium to everything to make it sparkly!
     
  14. Depends on what kind of tweeter you currently have. I would think impedance/sensitivity of that compared to what you're replacing it with would make a huge difference in whether your 6" speaker replacement would work.

    If you have piezo, there may not even be a conventional crossover, their impedance curve sort of "self crosses over" the driver. Some do use xovers with piezos also. Replacing piezo with a 6" speaker I wouldn't think woul work well. Spkr is likely way less efficient.

    Randy
     

  15. Mmmmm.... sparkly...... :D
     
  16. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Pardon my ignorance, but don't those brands have tweets as well. From memory the Accugroove has 2 tweets. IMO, there's your answer right there..............
     
  17. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    ...my Berg NV215 has NO tweets & sounds sweet as hell!

    If you're not playing an ERB or extremely critical with that extra nuance during slapping, when are you going to really utilize a tweeter? Hell, a guitarist in the highest register doesn't need that type of Hz response!

    I "like" the AG tweets the best BUT never ran them wide open, didn't need to, & if I shut them down & cranked the mid 6" driver it sounded as good if not better to me with my Zon 6 + fx!

    Bottom line, what the heck can a tweeter really do or justify in a BASS cab???...

    ~S~
     
  18. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I slap sometimes. I also use a pick sometimes. For both of those, I need to hear the tweet.
     
  19. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    ...exactly!, BUT, will the crowd or listener even know/hear it? I can't in a mix/band situation. If I do, usally it's a very obnoxious & annoying screech...not anything at ALL...

    ~S~

    PS: Tweets are more headaches/hype than they're worth...