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Replacement for 09 AmStd Bridge

#21
So I took this bass to the gig tonight and wasn't real impressed with the bridge because I didn't think I had a very good sound...felt and sounded rather flat and uninspiring to me tonight. I changed over to the stock bridge, but before I did, I did a recording of the bass with the Hipshot and then did one with the Fender. At first I thought they were pretty close, but after waiting a few minutes to let my ears re-accustom to sound, I think I'm definitely hearing some differences with the Hipshot that I don't like. Sounds lighter in the loafers. First time I ever experienced sound differences by changing bridges. Neutered the heck out of my sound on the gig.

Unfortunately, that D string intonation thing is rearing its ugly head again. I tried swapping saddles just in case there might have been a burr on the D string saddle, but got the same result. So now I'm doubly irritated...got one bridge that sounds great and won't intonate properly, got another bridge that sounds like crap and will intonate properly. I think i may have to consult with my local repair guy on the Fender bridge, and if he has no idea what to do, I guess I'm going to have to try the Hipshot A in brass. Sucks...why can't things be easy? And why can't there be more than a couple drop-in choices for AmStd's by now?

Happy Thanksgiving my ass ;)
 
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#22
Sorry to hear it's not working for you. FWIW- Mike Lull uses the aluminum A series on his basses and they always impress me as being punchy and muscular when I've played them.

It's been awhile but when I A/B'd the brass and aluminum B series but if memory serves I didn't notice quite as much difference when I strung thru the body. When I top loaded the strings the aluminum seems to have a bit more attack at the beginning of the note and seemed to be more dynamic. The heavy brass had more sustain and the bass seemed a little more buzzy (setup was identical). Brass is supposed to put energy back in the string and aluminum is supposed to let the body speak more (don't know if I worded that well) so I wondered if the buzz extra energy/sustain in the string.

Happy Thanksgiving!
 
#23
I don't know but if I can't figure out this stock bridge, I guess I will try the brass version of the A. I appreciate your assistance on this, though. Wasn't your fault the aluminum bridge didn't work out ;)
 
#24
I'm interested to hear your results after you put a brass bridge back on. I made my own string-thru bridge out of aluminum a few weeks ago thinking that I was going to get a more dynamic sound and it actually seemed to deaden it a little. Check out my post in this other thread:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/fender-rsd-bridge.1091787/page-2

I ended up going back to my Fender American bridge but with my custom made saddles which actually seemed to help fine tune my intonation better than the round/grooved saddles. I'm still curious as to why the aluminum would deaden the sound when everyone else's experience with aluminum is that is gives a more punchy and present sound.

Here's my custom machined aluminum bridge and brass saddles before I installed it:
BB-1s.jpg
BB-2s.jpg



Here's the Fender American Bridge with my custom saddles.
saddles_1.jpg
 
#26
i think jimmy already ruled out the bad string idea, he says he's familiar with what bad strings sound like.

i'm still curious to find out the actual measured scale length of that one string, it should never be shorter than the nominal scale of 34". (might be easier to measure 17" from the center of the 12th fret wire, from there to where the string first contacts the saddle.)

something funny is going on here, it should only matter where the string first touches the saddle; the bridge could be shaped like a rubber chicken, and if the string lands on it at the right distance and height it should intonate the same.

i'd postulate something goofy like the outer windings running out and the string getting narrower before it reaches the nut, but D strings don't usually do that, it's an issue with the fatter strings.
 
#27
mgb71 said:
I'm interested to hear your results after you put a brass bridge back on. I made my own string-thru bridge out of aluminum a few weeks ago thinking that I was going to get a more dynamic sound and it actually seemed to deaden it a little. Check out my post in this other thread:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/fender-rsd-bridge.1091787/page-2

I ended up going back to my Fender American bridge but with my custom made saddles which actually seemed to help fine tune my intonation better than the round/grooved saddles. I'm still curious as to why the aluminum would deaden the sound when everyone else's experience with aluminum is that is gives a more punchy and present sound.

Here's my custom machined aluminum bridge and brass saddles before I installed it:
View attachment 514313 View attachment 514314


Here's the Fender American Bridge with my custom saddles.
View attachment 514315
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That turned out very nice, but I'm with you...I'll never do aluminum on a bridge again.
 
#29
mgb71 said:
Thanks, but it was a lot of work to end up with a disappointing sound. I wonder if it has anything to do with being string-thru vs. top load. Maybe there are some different dynamics going on? At some point I'm going to make another one out of brass and do a sound comparison.
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I never heard any difference between top load and string-thru load on 3 different sets of strings on my Precision, nor do I recall any differences in the past on other basses. I totally think it's the aluminum. I think if I got a brass Hipshot A, I would have been better off.

And that's likely what I'm going to do due to an experiment I just tried. Swapped out the Fender bridge's D saddle with one from another bass I have here with a cheapo bent plate bridge, and it still intonates at the same spot. At least I know the Hipshot will intonate properly. Ugly damn bridge, though. Sorry.
 
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#30
at this point, several bridge swaps in with the same strings, i'm suspecting a kink in the string throwing things off; it might be worth one last try of putting the saddle in the "normal" location (which should mean the string contacts it maybe 1/16" back from the nominal 34" scale length) and throwing a new D on it.

hell, is the pickup too close? maybe the heights aren't exactly the same between the two bridges, how are you measuring?

maybe there's some kind of issue with the string getting twisted up upon installation, throwing off its behavior.

this isn't magic, the same string at the same height should intonate at the same place. something else is interfering.
 
#31
walterw said:
at this point, several bridge swaps in with the same strings, i'm suspecting a kink in the string throwing things off; it might be worth one last try of putting the saddle in the "normal" location (which should mean the string contacts it maybe 1/16" back from the nominal 34" scale length) and throwing a new D on it.
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Took your advice and tried this. Even did it top loaded. Exact same result with a new string. I measured the scale length from the 12th fret and it's a quarter inch shy of 17". And the string plays out of tune once it gets past that point, getting gradually more and more sharp as you go up the neck, which it didn't do with the Hipshot. More on this later...

hell, is the pickup too close? maybe the heights aren't exactly the same between the two bridges, how are you measuring?
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Straight edge marked off in 32nds at 17th fret. I'm very fussy about my action...if it wasn't dead on, it was extremely close.

maybe there's some kind of issue with the string getting twisted up upon installation, throwing off its behavior.
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I'd like to think not ;) I'm always very careful to keep it from kinking and twisting.

this isn't magic, the same string at the same height should intonate at the same place. something else is interfering.
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At this point, I can't imagine what. But I agree...there's really no reason it shouldn't. But what??? Maybe the strings really are messed up, but evidence with the Hipshot and my other bass with them sure speaks to it being something else.

I have them on a 95 P Lyte, stock bridge which only does top loading. The D saddle juts out ever so slightly past the G saddle, but measures at 34" and intonates perfectly with no out-of-tuneness as you play past the 12th fret.

I am going to contact Dunlop on Monday, though. Maybe they know something I don't. And if I can get to it tonight, I'm going to swap a 3rd bass over to them, a Guitar Factory 4-string with actives, neck-thru-body, and a Kahler whammy. I'll let you know my results. And hopefully I can find all my hex wrenches for it...that thing is hex wrench hell. But once it's set it never goes out of tune, believe it or not. Just have to do a lot of prep work with the strings.

EDIT: So much for that idea. That bass has the E string post mounted rather low on the headstock, and it's a Sperzel with a thin post, so the fat part went around the post and promptly broke when I got it tensioned up. It's not a bass I use much anymore anyway, so I guess I'll just stick with XL's on it for now.
 
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#32
OK, so you're controlling string height, even if it's slightly different that shouldn't be a factor, it would have to be way different to skew results like this.
JimmyM said:
Took your advice and tried this. Even did it top loaded. Exact same result with a new string. I measured the scale length from the 12th fret and it's a quarter inch shy of 17".
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that's essentially impossible! are you measuring from where the string actually touches that round saddle, which is pretty much at its center? (forgive the dumb questions, but i'm grasping at straws here)
JimmyM said:
And the string plays out of tune once it gets past that point, getting gradually more and more sharp as you go up the neck, which it didn't do with the Hipshot.
Click to expand...
wait, sharp? if that's not a typing brain-fart then this is all a big mistake.
 
#33
walterw said:
OK, so you're controlling string height, even if it's slightly different that shouldn't be a factor, it would have to be way different to skew results like this.
Click to expand...
Yep, and forgot to mention that my pickups are actually slightly lower than what Fender recommends for vintage-style pickups.

that's essentially impossible! are you measuring from where the string actually touches that round saddle, which is pretty much at its center? (forgive the dumb questions, but i'm grasping at straws here)
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Turns out I was off a little...just re-measured. From the bottom of the fret just where the string quits touching it to the center of the saddle, it's slightly over 16 5/8" on the D. That's the only place for the saddle I could get it to have the 12th fret harmonic and the fretted note in tune.

wait, sharp? if that's not a typing brain-fart then this is all a big mistake.
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Nope, not a typo nor a brain fart. It plays in tune on the D string all the way up to the 12th fret, then it gradually gets sharper on the higher frets. I know that you're going to say it's the string, but how come it does it with multiple strings, and how come the same D strings are all fine with the Hipshot and the bridge on the P Lyte?
 
#34
if many of the notes are averaging out sharp then the saddle is too far forward and needs to go back! nothing special about the 12th fret, if the rest of the frets are sharp then you need to pull that saddle back in line with the rest, at least back to the nominal 17" from the 12th fret.
 
#35
walterw said:
if many of the notes are averaging out sharp then the saddle is too far forward and needs to go back! nothing special about the 12th fret, if the rest of the frets are sharp then you need to pull that saddle back in line with the rest, at least back to the nominal 17" from the 12th fret.
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I do that and the fretted note at the 12th fret is flat to the harmonic. If it was that easy I'd have never started the thread!
 
#36
yeah, but a little flat in one area is usually better than a little sharp, normal pushing and pulling or more energetic hitting brings them all up a bit.

OK, one last straw to grasp at: are all these strings you've been trying from the same batch? like a bulk box or whatever?

it might be worth trying a different brand or whatever. (that still doesn't explain how they behave differently with different bridges
bonk.gif
)
 
#37
walterw said:
yeah, but a little flat in one area is usually better than a little sharp, normal pushing and pulling or more energetic hitting brings them all up a bit.

OK, one last straw to grasp at: are all these strings you've been trying from the same batch? like a bulk box or whatever?

it might be worth trying a different brand or whatever. (that still doesn't explain how they behave differently with different bridges
bonk.gif
)
Click to expand...
Had XL's on it before the Dunlops, and they intonated perfectly with the AmStd bridge. I did get several Dunlop sets at once after the initial set, so I assume they were from the same batch. But as you say, it still doesn't explain the different behavior with different bridges on the same bass.

But I figured that since I had already tried a new D earlier tonight and broke the E string out of that set, I'd go ahead and try installing that same D string on my pieces parts PJ with the extremely cheap bent metal bridge (the same bridge with the saddle I pulled off and tried on my AmStd. It intonated perfectly at approx. 17" from the 12th fret and played in tune all the way up and down the neck. So apparently the problem is isolated to this one bridge, as this is the 3rd bass and 4th bridge I've tried a Dunlop D that worked perfectly and the AmStd bridge never works.
 
#38
Having another thought...even though it doesn't look like it's broken, what do you all think the chances are that the AmStd bridge is broken or damaged somehow and a direct Fender replacement would work fine? I'm probably seriously reaching with that one, eh? I really don't think it's broken. It just seems very very odd that this is the only bridge it's happening with. Wish I had two AmStds so I could check out my theory. Well not really ;) but in this case it would be nice.
 

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