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Replacement speakers for an existing 2 x12?

boristhespider7

boristhespider7

Jan 27, 2008
1,572
766
UK
#1
Currently own an Ashdown VS-212 (2x12") cab rated at 300W @ 8 Ohms that i'd like to increase its power and punch (more mids more). What replacement speaker would work best? Eminence and Fane speakers are readily available here. Would an Eminence Kappa 12a or Delta 12 work well?

Ideally would like a min 300w load/speaker at 8 ohm each with budget of £100/speaker

Internal dimensions of the cab are:
91L or 3.33 cubic ft total
It is front ported with no tweeter or horn etc and has a great motown tone to it. Just doesn't handle as much volume and low end as i'd like as its really designed for the Little bastard head (30w all valve which i also have).

It'll be used with an Ashdown ABM 500 head which gives out 575w into 4 Ohms so i'd like my cab to be able to take the full power from the head without farting out. Be using it with a P bass for classic P tones
 
#3
Sure. Here's a driver you could buy ... Eminence Delta. 400@8. 98.3 dB. $85/pop in America. They're readily available in the U.K., isn't that right? Or am I mistaken? Although don't know the price across the pond, think they'll fall well within your budget.

Eminence Delta 12A speaker. The Eminence Delta 12A is a 12" 8 ohm speaker. Delta-12A is a 400 watt RMS 12" woofer.

You could try the Delta Pro, as well. 375@8. 99.8 dB. $110. Xmax is 5.1mm, so much greater displacement. And ain't no re-placement for dis-placement. I'd do these.

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#4
What you are aiming to do is not a simple matter of shoving a pair of arbitrary drivers into your box and calling it a day! That just leads to a crapshoot. You have to carefully measure your boxes internal dimensions and the area and depth of the ports. Then you have to plug those into a box design program and try to identify a suitable driver.
 
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#5
BassmanPaul said:
What you are aiming to do is not a simple matter of shoving a pair of arbitrary drivers into your box and calling it a day! That just leads to a crapshoot. You have to carefully measure your boxes internal dimensions and the area and depth of the ports. Then you have to plug those into a box design program and try to identify a suitable driver.
Click to expand...

Totally...but i was hoping that given the dimensions some more knowledgable TB'er than me (or someone who regularly plays with the software) could give me some pointers. Software is beyond me :(
 
#6
As your cab is rated to 300 watt I assume it's very efficient (very good spl). It's possible to upgrade the cab power handling but very likely reduced efficiency then will suffer on (weak) 30 watt amp power.

It's reading in a crystal ball but I vague assume tuning around 50-55Hz. So you can do some cab modelling on your own. Never the less it's best to have the port dimenions for any modelling!
 
#7
BassmanPaul said:
What you are aiming to do is not a simple matter of shoving a pair of arbitrary drivers into your box and calling it a day! That just leads to a crapshoot. You have to carefully measure your boxes internal dimensions and the area and depth of the ports. Then you have to plug those into a box design program and try to identify a suitable driver.
Click to expand...
+1, and to be sure that there's anything to be gained by swapping the speakers you have to get the specs on the original speakers and model those as well. Even then a box program only works up to 300 hz or so, above that you need to compare the SPL charts on the speaker manufacturers data sheets.
 
#8
ThisBass said:
As your cab is rated to 300 watt I assume it's very efficient (very good spl). It's possible to upgrade the cab power handling but very likely reduced efficiency then will suffer on (weak) 30 watt amp power.

It's reading in a crystal ball but I vague assume tuning around 50-55Hz. So you can do some cab modelling on your own. Never the less it's best to have the port dimenions for any modelling!
Click to expand...

No particularly efficient at the moment...about 98dB. The modded cab is to be used with my 575W ABM head, not the 30W LB30. I also have the port spec's (its a shelf port that runs the full length of the cab) and current data sheets of the current speakers if that helps. Will try and post them once i've had some sleep.
 
#9
OK, here's all the spec's on my current speakers i have at the moment. Port size on the VS212 is (front shelf port):
67cm x 1.8cm = 120.6cm2 or in ft 2.2ft x 0.06ft = 0.13 ft2

On the VS112 which is the 1x12 version which is voiced the same and has the same speaker in it, is a simple 80mm circular front port
Got some graphs for the speaker which is used in both VS112 and VS212 (these were published in Bass gear mag issue 9...great review BTW):
VS212 speaker profile

VS212 speaker profile

VS212 speaker profile

VS212 speaker profile


I would like punchier, and louder speakers compared to these, preferably from an Eminence or Fane speaker. Anyone able to chip in? Does this spread any light on the matter?
 
#16
boristhespider7 said:
preferably from an Eminence or Fane speaker.
Click to expand...
Have you already tried over at Basschat?
If and what Fane drivers are decent choices, in general and for your specific needs, folks there might know.
(Not sure if kosher to point towards other forums - and in case it's not apologies and delete away - but there's an objective dearth of threads/posts about, or even mentions of Fane products here.)
 
#17
boristhespider7 said:
Any other thoughts?
Click to expand...
Any Eminence will give better mids than what's in that chart, which is really horrible. Look at the Eminence data sheets to see the huge difference. What will work best for the lows requires software modeling, with the exact cab details and speaker T/S specs. The response hump around 150 hz and weak response below that indicates a cab that's too small or speaker Qts that's too high or both.
 
#18
Id probably just put some eminence basslite s2012 speakers in it.

It won't be crazy expensive. And you shouldn't have issues down the road.

You can get some performance gains from speaker swaps, but you have to remember your cab is always going to be limited by the bracing, construction methods, and materials used make the cab. It you put higher performance speakers in that cab and play decently loud, I bet it wouldn't be long before the cab had some nasty vibrations.

Then you'll be right back here asking about the nasty vibration and folks will be telling you how to reinforce the cab with addition bracing and so on.

I put some eminence bp102 8 ohms in my ampeg 410he. They definetly aren't the be all end all of speakers but it was a fun experiment. And they are good enough for my loud rock/metal band. I've seen people on tb bash those speakers because of their lack of high mids. But I always run an xlr live anyways so for me the cab is basically there as a "bass monitor" and it does a good enough job for that purpose.
 
#19
Another vote for the Delta Pro 12a. The stock tuning is usable, the bass will be moderately extended and articulate. The sensitivity is substantially greater and power handling is greater (including Xmax), so max volume will be greater.

I like the Deltalite 2512 and Basslite S2012, but both really require a somewhat larger box unless you don't mind a rich mid and upper bass that is a little soft and not particularly articulate. The 'voicing' with these drivers would be similar to the stock drivers, but with more power handling and better balanced mids.

All 3 of these would be significantly louder. Not sure about the 'punch', as there is some variability in meaning. The bass and mids will be much better balanced with any of the 3 eminence drivers.

Depending on the condition and age of the cab, it may have enough value that selling it, and adding the cost of the new drivers would allow you to get cabs with the tone and power handling you are after. OTOH, if you can get a pair of the Eminence drivers at a reasonable cost, go for it.
 
#20
AstroSonic said:
Another vote for the Delta Pro 12a. The stock tuning is usable, the bass will be moderately extended and articulate. The sensitivity is substantially greater and power handling is greater (including Xmax), so max volume will be greater.

I like the Deltalite 2512 and Basslite S2012, but both really require a somewhat larger box unless you don't mind a rich mid and upper bass that is a little soft and not particularly articulate. The 'voicing' with these drivers would be similar to the stock drivers, but with more power handling and better balanced mids.

All 3 of these would be significantly louder. Not sure about the 'punch', as there is some variability in meaning. The bass and mids will be much better balanced with any of the 3 eminence drivers.

Depending on the condition and age of the cab, it may have enough value that selling it, and adding the cost of the new drivers would allow you to get cabs with the tone and power handling you are after. OTOH, if you can get a pair of the Eminence drivers at a reasonable cost, go for it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice....much appreciated from all of you:)
Is the Delta Pro 12a the same as the Delta 12a? The Delta 12a is v reasonable priced in Europe (only about £80/each) so sounds like it would be a good one to try. I don't think i would make much selling this cab and buying another, besides i like the look and shape of this cab...really easy to carry
 

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