Replacement speakers for an existing 2 x12?

[CL400Peavey]

I'd go for some half decent celestion neo magnets.

I have not been impressed with their bass speaker offerings.

@boristhespider7 I think you are finding out why most people recommend designing the cab around the speakers, rather than trying to find something that will "work fine" in an existing enclosure. It can be tricky to find something that sounds like you want, and works in the box you have.

 

[AstroSonic]

So am i right in thinking that i have 2 options if go with the Delta 12LFA?
Seal the vent up? (will this work OK if i simply block it off? Or would i have to cut the shelf off first and then seal the gap?)
Shorten the port to 7-11cm?

You can go with a sealed cab by simply blocking off the port. The 12LFA will yield a non-peaked bass response, with moderate bass depth (F3 around 76 Hz, F5 around 63 Hz), AND sufficient power handling (approx. 180w at 40 Hz and lower) if excessive bass boost is not used. Results with the S2012 are similar (F3 around 72 Hz, excursion limited power handling around 200w below 40 Hz), but with about 3 db more sensitivity, more prominent upper mids, and several pounds less weight. Using the stock port, both yield about 10 Hz lower F3, over 300w excursion limited power handling to around 30 hz, but with only around 200w power handling in the mid-bass. I suggest that you try the cab both ways (sealed and ported), and choose the one you like best.

As long as you are tied to the stock cab configuration, these drivers are your best option. Either way, you will have more power handling and more mids. However, you will have cabs with a lean bass - very articulate, but lacking the prominent mid and upper bass of the stock cab. To get good Pbass tone you will need to boost the bass (probably 3-4 db), and this will reduce maximum loudness somewhat. So, sealed or ported, you will gain a fair amount of power handling, and more upper mids. If you only occasionally ran into power handling problems (like fart-out), these gains may be just what you need. If you were short on power handling fairly frequently, these gains are not likely to be enough.

For best possible performance, blocking the stock vent and adding tube ports is the best way to go. If you do not want to add tube ports (or cut back the vent shelf and deal with chuffing), it may be best to sell the stock cab and buy or build a cab that will deliver the tone and power handling you are looking for.

 

[boristhespider7]

You can go with a sealed cab by simply blocking off the port. The 12LFA will yield a non-peaked bass response, with moderate bass depth (F3 around 76 Hz, F5 around 63 Hz), AND sufficient power handling (approx. 180w at 40 Hz and lower) if excessive bass boost is not used. Results with the S2012 are similar (F3 around 72 Hz, excursion limited power handling around 200w below 40 Hz), but with about 3 db more sensitivity, more prominent upper mids, and several pounds less weight. Using the stock port, both yield about 10 Hz lower F3, over 300w excursion limited power handling to around 30 hz, but with only around 200w power handling in the mid-bass. I suggest that you try the cab both ways (sealed and ported), and choose the one you like best.

As long as you are tied to the stock cab configuration, these drivers are your best option. Either way, you will have more power handling and more mids. However, you will have cabs with a lean bass - very articulate, but lacking the prominent mid and upper bass of the stock cab. To get good Pbass tone you will need to boost the bass (probably 3-4 db), and this will reduce maximum loudness somewhat. So, sealed or ported, you will gain a fair amount of power handling, and more upper mids. If you only occasionally ran into power handling problems (like fart-out), these gains may be just what you need. If you were short on power handling fairly frequently, these gains are not likely to be enough.

For best possible performance, blocking the stock vent and adding tube ports is the best way to go. If you do not want to add tube ports (or cut back the vent shelf and deal with chuffing), it may be best to sell the stock cab and buy or build a cab that will deliver the tone and power handling you are looking for.

Thanks Astrosonic, thats really useful....v comprehensive. Just debating in my own mind which route to take...whether to give it a go or just buy another cab

 

[110s lover]

I have not been impressed with their bass speaker offerings.

@boristhespider7 I think you are finding out why most people recommend designing the cab around the speakers, rather than trying to find something that will "work fine" in an existing enclosure. It can be tricky to find something that sounds like you want, and works in the box you have.

Its not for everyone, i'd say they're way more old school sounding than most eminence speakers. Which i personally think soubds cool but it's each to their own

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Late to the party, just tossing out some opinions here...

I think that 37 Hz tuning is arguably viable for bass guitar. Some of my cabs give the user a choice between 50 and 37 Hz tuning frequencies (via port plugs), and some of my customers prefer the 37 Hz tuning. And I would say that the Delta 12LFA and Basslite S2012 are both better suited for a 37 Hz tuning frequency than the woofers I use.

Also, while the port cross-sectional area may show up as inadequate on a modeling program, in a normal bass guitar application you'll never see anything approaching full power down around 37 Hz so I doubt you'll get chuffing with a pair of Delta 12LFAs or Basslite S2012s. You might with a pair of Kappalite 3012LFs because they have about twice the excursion.

All that being said, blocking off the shelf port and adding your own port tubes, as has been suggested, would give you a stronger low-B.

Imo, ime, ymmv, etc.

 

[dalek]

What about Beyma speakers? It seems they have a good reputation.
I actually "need" to replace a damaged speakwr in a 2x12, when you tap the cone there's like a vibration coming from the voice coil, and playing you can hear it rattle all over ... I'm considering the Beyma sm212, it's not expensive and its specs seem very good... any opinion about them?

 

[AstroSonic]

What about Beyma speakers? It seems they have a good reputation.
I actually "need" to replace a damaged speakwr in a 2x12, when you tap the cone there's like a vibration coming from the voice coil, and playing you can hear it rattle all over ... I'm considering the Beyma sm212, it's not expensive and its specs seem very good... any opinion about them?

Beyma drivers are very good. However, like all good drivers, they need to be matched with a cabinet of more or less optimum volume and tuning. So, by 'its specs seem very good', do you mean that you have modeled that driver in your 212 and you know that it will produce the tone, power handling and volume performance you are after... or something else?

Any driver will 'work' in any cabinet having a panel large enough to mount the driver.

 

[dalek]

No, I haven't modeled the driver in my cab (Eden Nemesis 212), i feel that's beyond my capabilities!
I just see it has good power handling (350w), great Xmax, good sensibility... I would like to use a driver that won't get cooked as the original did

 

[AstroSonic]

No, I haven't modeled the driver in my cab (Eden Nemesis 212), i feel that's beyond my capabilities!
I just see it has good power handling (350w), great Xmax, good sensibility... I would like to use a driver that won't get cooked as the original did

There are two power handling limits: thermal power handling and excursion limited power handling. Your description of the failed driver suggests that its excursion limit was exceeded (though the two often go hand in hand). While a driver with high Xmax will increase excursion limited power handling, the driver working in a specific cab volume and tuning will determine excursion limited power handling (as well as bass tone). If the cab/tuning and driver are not reasonably well matched it is quite possible to push the driver into over-excursion in the mid and low bass at much lower power levels than if the driver and cab were matched. OTOH you could get a functionally good match by randomly installing a driver in a cab, but that can be a costly approach.

If you post the cab dimensions, board thickness and dimensions of any ports (rectangular or tubes), someone here can do the modeling and, with a budget, suggest optimum drivers and tunings. Or you could try it yourself. The basics are not all that difficult to learn and people here are pretty good about helping out.

 

[dalek]

Thanks for the explanation but I don't mean to kidnap the thread! I don't have access to the cab now but dimensions are 24-3/4"W x 24-3/4"H x 16-1/4"D, the port is tubular, I guess about 4-5", and the board is plywood about 1/2 inch. I will confirm this when I can. ANyway I'll look into modeling and thanks for the advice!

 

[dalek]

The port of the Nemesis cab is 12,6 cm in diameter and the bafle and cab sides are 16 mm thick plywood. I'll make a search on cab modeling

 

[TheRealKong]

What about Beyma speakers? It seems they have a good Reputation.
I aktualy "need" to replace a damaged speakwr in a 2x12, when you tap the cone there's like a vibration coming from the voice coil, and playing you can hear it rattle all over ... I'm considering the Beyma sm212, it's not expensive and its specs seem very good... any opinion about them?

I have a Workingman 212", 300 Watt @ 8 Ohm. The speakers started to make scratchy noises, so I had to go for some replacement.

With the help of my dealer and a simple cab simulation we decidet to try out a Beyma Speaker. Don't remember the full name, they are 12" with a large xmas, neo-magnets and 350 watt @ 8 ohm.

I wanted the cab to have 4 ohm, because together with my LM II it is my lightweight rig for venues about 200 people without FOH. The woofers sound made the old cab come back to live, can't be more satisfied.

But you have to do some research to find the speakers that will not only fit into the cab but be the right speakers for it. Some speaker simulations will help. You can get them as freeware.

 

[AstroSonic]

The port of the Nemesis cab is 12,6 cm in diameter and the bafle and cab sides are 16 mm thick plywood. I'll make a search on cab modeling

The Beyma will work well. The 5 inch diameter port is not optimum, but will work ok. Its length should be 1 1/8 inches. The Beyma has a smooth response with highs extending to around 5 kHz - if you will be using a tweeter that could be too much overlap. The best way to tell is by listening. A potential down side for the beam is its sensitivity which, based on the 1w response graph, is around 94 db/w/m (not 97 db). Its still a very usable cab. The Eminence Delta 12LFA would provide similar performance, is slightly more sensitive and less extended up top, so it would likely blend with a tweeter better. The Deltalite 2512 II would also work well, and is significantly more sensitive. Al will work with the single 5 inch diameter port with a length of 3/4 to 1 1/4 inches. For best performance a second 5 inch diameter port should be added. You could experiment with lengths in the range of 3 1/2 to 6 inches (or just go with 5 inches).

 

[Precibass]

Hi, anyone who would suggest a construction and measures for 2x12 sealed cabinet using Fane´s Sovereign 500LF? I really do not know how to calculate these, please? Lowest note is a C sharp and I really need it to have good bass without farting. Amp using is japan lawsuit Bassman 135 and Kustom 200w solid state with tube preamp. Thank You.