Reshaping and finishing a maple neck w skunk strip and binding

[Stagelab]

I have a maple Squier jazz neck with plastic binding and a skunk stripe, which I think is walnut. The neck is finished in a thick poly. It’s a pretty thick neck and I’d like to slim it down and flatten the profile. I’ve slimmed down another neck before but it didn’t have a skunk stripe or binding.

How do I approach this so I don’t create a ridge where the neck meets the binding? Is there a way to do this without the skunk stripe recessing since it’s a softer wood?

I was planning to use cabinet scrapers and then sand with a rubber eraser as a block. Which scrapers and sandpaper grits are recommended?

As for a finish, I’m thinking of applying tru oil. I might apply a diluted transtint mixture first to give the bare wood a slight tint, and then let the thin tru oil coats further amber the wood. I know the maple and walnut would both absorb the transtint at different rates and the result will be a bit patchy but I’m ok with that rustic look.

Or is this project simply too high risk to embark on?

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Yes cabinet scraper would be the best way, also try avoiding being aggressive around the skunk stripe area.

I don't use rubber sanding blocks, I prefer a ROS or an actual shaped piece of wood to hold the sandpaper.
The problem with flexible and soft is it's really easy get out of flat land.

I wouldn't bother with tints unless you're going for a color, Tru Oil and most oil finishes do amber a bit over time.

Oh yeah get your arms ready, you will be surprised out how much effort is required to remove all that thick poly.

And you are the only one that can determine risk and effort. If it was me, yes well worth the effort if I didn't like the neck as it is.
Best of success to you.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

It would be good to know where the trussrod rides in the neck, how far from the bottom face? Is it a single or DA rod? The safest approach, unless you know exactly how much "meat" you have under the rod, is to leave the skunk stripe area essentially untouched, and do any shaving at the "shoulders, between the skunk stripe and the binding. Binding comes in two common thickness, .040" and .060". If it's .060" or so, it will still be close to that thickness at the fingerboard face. In either case, it probably tapers thickness a bit as it rolls down into the neck, so you already have less than full .040" or .060" thickness at the bottom edge. Be careful sanding that bottom binding edge, you don't want to sand through it. Your hand feels the "shoulders" as girth, not so much the overall depth, or that binding edge, unless it's really "square". A cabinet scraper should work fairly well for shaving the shoulders into something like a flat "D", but you have to know how to sharpen one. You could do it with files or a rasp using the "facet" method, which is how I rough shape a neck from scratch (look it up on YT).Get one of the profile gauges with movable leaves, or download a set of neck profiles and make your own gauges out of cardstock, at least nut, 12th, and maybe 17th fret or so. If you have a neck you like, "borrow" the profiles off that. You don't want to wing it, or you'll get an uneven neck. Get a long-ish piece of something dead flat like MDF, or even something like a 16-18" aluminum level, and tape some sandpaper to it. After you have it roughed with the scraper or files, use the sanding beam to flatten out any high or low spots, you WILL feel them later if you don't fair it all out. Mark the neck with a cross-hatch pattern in pencil, any of it that doesn't get sanded out is a low spot, but don't go nuts. Finish up by "shoeshineing" it with long strips of sandpaper, up to 320 grit. Tru-Oil is a good option for finsh, it's stupid easy to apply, provides reasonable protection, and is easy to repair with more Tru-Oil. If you want it satin, just knock back the shine with a Grey scotchbrite pad. One good trick with Tru-Oil, get some of the foam makeup applicators in the cosmetic section of any drugstore or grocery, they are like the world's finest foam brush, and come in all kinds of shapes. I like the circular ones about 1" in diameter, but you can get an assortment pack with wedge shapes for getting into tight corners. They leave no brushmarks if you just apply the oil in long overlapping strokes along the length of the neck. Good Luck!

 

[Stagelab]

It would be good to know where the trussrod rides in the neck, how far from the bottom face? Is it a single or DA rod? The safest approach, unless you know exactly how much "meat" you have under the rod, is to leave the skunk stripe area essentially untouched, and do any shaving at the "shoulders, between the skunk stripe and the binding. Binding comes in two common thickness, .040" and .060". If it's .060" or so, it will still be close to that thickness at the fingerboard face. In either case, it probably tapers thickness a bit as it rolls down into the neck, so you already have less than full .040" or .060" thickness at the bottom edge. Be careful sanding that bottom binding edge, you don't want to sand through it. Your hand feels the "shoulders" as girth, not so much the overall depth, or that binding edge, unless it's really "square". A cabinet scraper should work fairly well for shaving the "shoulders" into something like a flat "D", but you have to know how to sharpen one. Get one of the profile gauges with movable leaves, or download a set of neck profiles and make your own gauges out of cardstock, at least nut, 12th, and maybe 17th fret or so. You don't want to "wing it", or you'll get an uneven neck. Get a long-ish piece of something dead flat like MDF, or even something like a 16-18" aluminum level, and tape some sandpaper to it. After you have it roughed with the scraper, use the sanding beam to flatten out any high or low spots, you WILL feel them later if you don't fair it all out. Mark the neck with a cross-hatch pattern in pencil, any of it that doesn't get sanded out is a low spot, but don't go nuts. Finish up by "shoshineing" it with long strips of sandpaper, up to 320 grit. Tru-Oil is a good option for finsh, it's stupid easy to apply, provides reasonable protection, and is easy to repair with more Tru-Oil. If you want it satin, just knock back the shine with a Grey scotchbrite pad.

It’s a dual action rod. I don’t know how much meat there is. The profile is around 21.5mm at fret 1 and 24mm at fret 12. I’d like to bring it down to 20mm and 23mm and flatten the C profile somewhat. This means scraping the skunk strip a fair amount. Maybe too much?

I’m thinking this order: scrape the skunk stripe and surrounding maple to reach target thickness; carve flat planes from the edges of the binding toward the center to establish D shoulders; blend with sandpaper on hard block, level with beam, shoeshine up to 320 grit.

To avoid a ridge between the binding and the edge of the neck, should I lightly scrape the binding on some of the passes when I’m establishing the D shoulders?

What grit paper should I use for blending with the block, for the long beam and for the shoeshine?

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Most dual action rods are only around 3/8" deep below the board, but you want to leave about 1/8" wood minimum under the the rod, so use that to figure out how much you can shave at the skunk stripe. If you shave through to the rod , the neck is toast. Card scrapers leave a fairly smooth finish, but if you use files, start with 80 grit, 100',180, 220,320.

Amazon.com

 

[Dirk Diggler]

^ This is the answer.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

How do I approach this so I don’t create a ridge where the neck meets the binding? Is there a way to do this without the skunk stripe recessing since it’s a softer wood?

This is what files are for. A file is rigid, with rows of long wide teeth set in a flat plane. When you slide it over the joint between two materials of different hardness, it will cut them to the same height. It has to; the teeth are fixed and cannot drop down and dig in deeper on the softer material.

Sandpaper is soft and flexible, and its teeth are a whole bunch of little points. Even when backed with a hard wood block, sandpaper can dig deep enough to dig deeper into the softer material.

In general, you should use files to shape the wood, taking off a lot of material and changing the contour and form. That's how you do it accurately. Then, when the contour and shape is where you want it, use sandpaper to smooth the surface. Taking off a small layer evenly, to remove the file marks and scratches.

 

[Stagelab]

This is what files are for. A file is rigid, with rows of long wide teeth set in a flat plane. When you slide it over the joint between two materials of different hardness, it will cut them to the same height. It has to; the teeth are fixed and cannot drop down and dig in deeper on the softer material.

Sandpaper is soft and flexible, and its teeth are a whole bunch of little points. Even when backed with a hard wood block, sandpaper can dig deep enough to dig deeper into the softer material.

In general, you should use files to shape the wood, taking off a lot of material and changing the contour and form. That's how you do it accurately. Then, when the contour and shape is where you want it, use sandpaper to smooth the surface. Taking off a small layer evenly, to remove the file marks and scratches.

if I use files or scrapers or both, will I end up with transition lines where the modified area of the neck meets the untouched poly finish? Any way to get rid of them? The last poly-finished neck I reshaped I did by sanding only and the transition lines were glaring cause they couldn’t absorb the transtint. See example attached. I’ve tried skipping transtint and just using tru oil but I wasn’t happy with the color; the amber effect was extremely subtle.

 

[bherman]

I would not use a card scraper unless you are familiar with how to put a proper burr edge on one. They're useless unless prepared properly. If I read your posts correctly, you are only looking to remove about 1 - 1.5 mm which is minimal and should not affect the rod unless its really close to the surface. I do alot of woodworking and personally I'd probably use fine wood files to shape the neck profile and sandpaper on a fairly rigid block. I'd start with 80 grit and go all the way up to 320 (120, 150, 180, 220, 320). To avoid a transition line, I'd remove the tuners and take the finish up all the way to the top of the headstock, thus eliminating any transition line.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

if I use files or scrapers or both, will I end up with transition lines where the modified area of the neck meets the untouched poly finish? Any way to get rid of them? The last poly-finished neck I reshaped I did by sanding only and the transition lines were glaring cause they couldn’t absorb the transtint. See example attached. I’ve tried skipping transtint and just using tru oil but I wasn’t happy with the color; the amber effect was extremely subtle.

Sorry, but there aren't any easy answers here. Factory maple necks are typically finished by spraying on several coats of poly, tinted with a transparent amber shade. It's not a stain, it's a finish with thickness built up on the surface. If you file/scrape/sand away part of it down to the bare wood, you've taken away the thickness and the amber tint. You get a physical step and an abrupt change in the color.

There's not much you can do about it. You can try to gently sand the edge of the finish to a feathered edge, but it's really hard to get it even looking.

If you try adding a stain like TransTint to the bare maple, it's very difficult to match the color of the amber tint in the poly finish. And the stain overlapping the poly will look darker, exaggerating the contrast.

You can put a new thin oil-type finish on the bare wood, but it will be difficult to match the color of the amber tint. And you'll still have the mechanical step up onto the poly finish.

Or you can respray the tinted poly up to the line, trying your best to match the tint shade and the thickness. Still tricky.

What to do?

Leave the transition line there. Trim it to a straight line of a pleasing shape. Very lightly sand the edge so it doesn't catch your finger too much.

File/scrape the poly off all the way up to the edges of the headstock surfaces, and soften them there. The color and thickness change will be less noticeable there.

File/scrape/sand all of the poly off of the whole neck. Refinish the whole thing with your choice of finish and shade.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

if it's a fender-style neck, you could use the "vee" transition from headstock to neck at the back as your change from poly to tru-oil. It will show, but at least look neat and intentional. I've had good luck with wipe-on satin poly too, using the same foam makeup applicators, and that might blend better than Tru-Oil.

 

[Stagelab]

I would not use a card scraper unless you are familiar with how to put a proper burr edge on one. They're useless unless prepared properly. If I read your posts correctly, you are only looking to remove about 1 - 1.5 mm which is minimal and should not affect the rod unless its really close to the surface. I do alot of woodworking and personally I'd probably use fine wood files to shape the neck profile and sandpaper on a fairly rigid block. I'd start with 80 grit and go all the way up to 320 (120, 150, 180, 220, 320). To avoid a transition line, I'd remove the tuners and take the finish up all the way to the top of the headstock, thus eliminating any transition line.

What wood files do you recommend?

I might remove the finish from the headstock then. I assume this means removing the decal.

I could always buy a new decal and apply it later. Getting rid of waterslide decal outlines is tricky in my experience but I’d be ok leaving the outline there, like an old Fender.

 

[Stagelab]

Sorry, but there aren't any easy answers here. Factory maple necks are typically finished by spraying on several coats of poly, tinted with a transparent amber shade. It's not a stain, it's a finish with thickness built up on the surface. If you file/scrape/sand away part of it down to the bare wood, you've taken away the thickness and the amber tint. You get a physical step and an abrupt change in the color.

There's not much you can do about it. You can try to gently sand the edge of the finish to a feathered edge, but it's really hard to get it even looking.

If you try adding a stain like TransTint to the bare maple, it's very difficult to match the color of the amber tint in the poly finish. And the stain overlapping the poly will look darker, exaggerating the contrast.

You can put a new thin oil-type finish on the bare wood, but it will be difficult to match the color of the amber tint. And you'll still have the mechanical step up onto the poly finish.

Or you can respray the tinted poly up to the line, trying your best to match the tint shade and the thickness. Still tricky.

What to do?

Leave the transition line there. Trim it to a straight line of a pleasing shape. Very lightly sand the edge so it doesn't catch your finger too much.

File/scrape the poly off all the way up to the edges of the headstock surfaces, and soften them there. The color and thickness change will be less noticeable there.

File/scrape/sand all of the poly off of the whole neck. Refinish the whole thing with your choice of finish and shade.

Thanks Bruce. I’ve always gotten patchy results with tru oil on maple but I like how easy tru oil is to work with. If I removed the finish from the whole neck and went with another finishing product this time, what would you recommend?

I wonder how thick the poly finish is on the average Squier or Fender neck. It could be the poly is thicker than the amount of material I want to remove. Maybe I could get the neck depth I want while retaining some of the finish, not sure.

 

[bherman]

What wood files do you recommend?

I might remove the finish from the headstock then. I assume this means removing the decal.

I could always buy a new decal and apply it later. Getting rid of waterslide decal outlines is tricky in my experience but I’d be ok leaving the outline there, like an old Fender.

I would just do the back of the headstock and leave the front as-is, as long as you are careful not to damage the edges and front of the headstock. I can't really steer you towards specific brands, I've had mine forever and don't remember where they came from. Coarser ones (they're actually rasps) can get pricey. One source that I like for decent tools that are relatively affordable is Taylor Tools, taytools.com. Something like this one would probably get you going

 

[Stagelab]

I would just do the back of the headstock and leave the front as-is, as long as you are careful not to damage the edges and front of the headstock. I can't really steer you towards specific brands, I've had mine forever and don't remember where they came from. Coarser ones (they're actually rasps) can get pricey. One source that I like for decent tools that are relatively affordable is Taylor Tools, taytools.com. Something like this one would probably get you going

Good suggestion about the headstock. Did you mean to provide a link to a file? I’ve read Shinto, Nicholson shear cut, and farrier’s rasps are all used. As a newcomer to this, I’d prefer a tool that is less likely to do damage even if it means a more time consuming job. The only files I have right now are a set of needle files.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I have a Shinto, the fine side does a nice job at quick stock removal, I use it to rough out necks using the Facet Method, but I havent found much use for the coarse side, unless you are really coarsely roughing something out, it leaves pretty deep gouges, and it's easy to over-do it. Nicholson files are good quality, and available at most Big Box stores or Amazon in sets with a few different shapes. @Bruce Johnson might have a better suggestion, I think he uses Swiss files. Get a file card while you are at it, old poly or wood dust will clog up a metal file pretty quick. +1 on leaving the headstock face alone, no reason to touch it. That hard edge between headstock face and sides might be your least obtrusive transition. You might want to at least try some satin wipe on poly vs. Tru-Oil on scrap, with or without some amber tint, both really easy to apply, but the wipe on poly will be a more durable finish. Another option, though it sounds a bit odd, is the Stewmac Fretboard Finishing Oil. Its similar to Tru-Oil, but it dries really fast, and just seals the wood by sinking in and drying hard. The first couple coats just get absorbed, and then a couple more gets you to satin, basically apply, let it sit for a few minutes, then wipe off excess, repeat every 24 hours until you like how it looks/feels. I knock it back a little every few coats with a grey scotchbrite.

 

[bherman]

Good suggestion about the headstock. Did you mean to provide a link to a file? I’ve read Shinto, Nicholson shear cut, and farrier’s rasps are all used. As a newcomer to this, I’d prefer a tool that is less likely to do damage even if it means a more time consuming job. The only files I have right now are a set of needle files.

Yes in my post the words “this one” is a link. Sorry, I should’ve made it more obvious.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Here's a classic thread all about the different tools you can use for carving necks. Many of us joined in, comparing our favorites.

Thread 'Best Tools for Neck Carving'

Dec 24, 2021

Due to my inherent Cheapskatery, I've been making do with a set of cheap Harbor Freight rasps. They do the job, but clog easily, and leave a rough finish that takes a while to sand out. Other than the Usual Suspects, like a Shinto rasp (tried one, not hugely impressed), what are you all using? Ive tried some of the micro-plane rasps with limited success, but that may be down to technique. I think my ideal would be something short, half round for flats or curves, fairly aggressive, but cuts rather than gouges like a rasp, and leaves a finish that doesnt take hours to sand out. Maybe it...

• Gilmourisgod
• Replies: 65
• Forum: Luthier's Corner

That thread is mostly about shaping a new neck from bare wood. What you are doing is just refining the shape of an existing neck a small amount. You are only taking off a small amount of wood, carefully. For that, I don't recommend using a rasp, a Shinto, Microplane, or Angle Grinder. Those are tools for hogging off a lot of wood quickly. If you don't have much experience with them, you'll probably damage the neck before you realize it.

As a starter kit for trimming the shape of necks, I recommend two basic Nicholson files: An 8" Half Round Bastard Cut, and an 8" Half Round Smooth Cut. The 8" length files are a nice intermediate size for general work cleaning up necks. The Bastard file does the rougher cutting, and the Smooth file takes out the tooth marks of the Bastard file. From there, sand with 180 and 220.

 

[Stagelab]

Here's a classic thread all about the different tools you can use for carving necks. Many of us joined in, comparing our favorites.

Thread 'Best Tools for Neck Carving'

Dec 24, 2021

Due to my inherent Cheapskatery, I've been making do with a set of cheap Harbor Freight rasps. They do the job, but clog easily, and leave a rough finish that takes a while to sand out. Other than the Usual Suspects, like a Shinto rasp (tried one, not hugely impressed), what are you all using? Ive tried some of the micro-plane rasps with limited success, but that may be down to technique. I think my ideal would be something short, half round for flats or curves, fairly aggressive, but cuts rather than gouges like a rasp, and leaves a finish that doesnt take hours to sand out. Maybe it...

• Gilmourisgod
• Replies: 65
• Forum: Luthier's Corner

That thread is mostly about shaping a new neck from bare wood. What you are doing is just refining the shape of an existing neck a small amount. You are only taking off a small amount of wood, carefully. For that, I don't recommend using a rasp, a Shinto, Microplane, or Angle Grinder. Those are tools for hogging off a lot of wood quickly. If you don't have much experience with them, you'll probably damage the neck before you realize it.

As a starter kit for trimming the shape of necks, I recommend two basic Nicholson files: An 8" Half Round Bastard Cut, and an 8" Half Round Smooth Cut. The 8" length files are a nice intermediate size for general work cleaning up necks. The Bastard file does the rougher cutting, and the Smooth file takes out the tooth marks of the Bastard file. From there, sand with 180 and 220.

I found the bastard cut at HD https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crescen...ard-Cut-Half-Round-Wood-Rasp-21878N/205218182 but I can't find the smooth cut anywhere. Is it also called something else?

 

[Stagelab]

This neck is a C and I'd like to reshape it into a D. I drafted steps based on some more research I did, mainly watching videos. Can I get a sanity check?

• File the back of the neck along the skunk strip with flat side of bastard file until center is about 0.5mm larger than your target depth. The rest will be sanded off later.
  • Repeat previous step with smooth cut file.
• Create two distinct facets on each shoulder for the D shape with flat side of bastard file: one at roughly 60 degrees (closer to the binding) and one at 30 degrees (closer to the center flat).
  • Repeat previous step with smooth cut file.
• Use wood block with 80 grit to level sand the center
• Use wood block with 120 grit to blend the new flat sides into the center. Focus pressure on the "peaks" where the facets meet.
• Sand where the binding meets the edges of the neck with a block and 320 at a 45 degree angle to remove any ridge that's formed.
• Shoeshine with 120 from the nut end to the heel to round off the corners and blend the facets into a smooth curve. Use shorter, more localized strokes on the shoulders to maintain the D shape.
• Repeat the previous step with 150, 180, and 220.
• Wipe the neck with a damp cloth, dry and dewhisker with 220.
• Shoeshine with 320.
• Dewhisker with 400
• Wipe neck with naphtha to verify all finish has been removed before applying new finish—still deciding on which finish I'll go with.

I don't want to remove the serial number from the back of the headstock so while I like the suggestion to remove the finish from the back, I'm going to leave the headstock be and try to feather the file and sandpaper to ease the transition line.

As for the heel, I'm planning to sand w/ 80 grit to remove the finish off the back and sides of the neck to just passed where the body meets the neck so that transition line is hidden when the bass is assembled. Then repeat with 120, 150, 180 and 220.