I'm not even 1% sure of that. IMO more isn't better. Less isn't better either. Only better is better, and that can mean more, less, or the same.
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Respect your elders
- Thread starter Russy
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I'm not even 1% sure of that. IMO more isn't better. Less isn't better either. Only better is better, and that can mean more, less, or the same.
In my view the bassplay should be on the same level as the rest of the music. Since I listen to mostly technical music I tend to prefer technical and advanced basslines since it works with the music. Since I like simple bands aswell I once thought that simple basslines worked better with simple music but I now think otherwise, there is so incredibly much you can do that is fairly advanced that doesn't sound like you are showing off. It can be to play roots but to accentuate them in certain ways and add some rhythm and whatever you feel like. There is endless posibilites within a simple bassline spectra that only a skilled bassplayer can use. Sure you can always go to far but each player should try to add as much as they can while the serving the whole.
Marcuss Miller is one of thoose guys that I can't stand listening to, his slap version of Teen Town is in my view the ultimate bass blasphemy so you are not going to hear me defend his approach to bassplaying. But the reason his stuff is "wrong" is because he doesn't stick with the overall music, if he was to play in a very technical band like Spastic Ink then he would be required to play extremly advanced stuff and in that enverionment it work better. And lets say that you choose to not learn how to solo like Jeff Berlin then surely you can still manage very well as a bassplayer but in the end you will still be limited when it comes to playing advanced solos. (Odds are high that none of us will ever reach that level but I hope that we will all die trying...).
Hmm, I cant imagine anyone could make this bassline better by adding to it. It doesnt work that way really does it.
Who is Sean Malone? I thought he was the guy from Cheers?
Could 'Another One Bites The Dust' be made better by adding to it?
Absolutely, undeniabley, totally NOT!!!
You won't really know until you try, I once thought that black metal never could have any use for anything other than root notes played with pick but then I heard a bassplayer who where schooled in fusion play in black metal and then I realised that I was wrong. Simple was not better after all. The same goes with rock, pop or whatever else that is simple by nature.
Sean Malone is mainly a fusion/prog player who got "famous" when he played in Cynic. After cynic he has been in several amazing bands like Aghora, Gordian Knot (his own band with Bruford on the second album), Cortland (his jazz/fusion album), Spastic Ink (he is on the new album), OSI, + over 40 other albums. He is one of the elite in the genre and he have played with Gary Willis, Michael Manring and lots of known names.
Here is his site with soundclips :
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Anyways, simple if played by someone with little skill is almost always bad. If someone really good plays simple then it is for a reason but often when bad players play simple it is because they can't do better. I'm sure that Jeff Berlin would make Blink 182 better if he replaced mark hoppus for example. He would probably not do any bass solos but he would add something extra to the music.
Note that I am a huge fan of really technical music, if you just like to rock out with some simple music then you can disregard everything that I wrote since then our views are so different that there is no point arguing about this.
Absolutely!
Although I'm not sure if the same statement can be applied to the 80's
Absolutely tho, cheese is great, although I must admit WR do push the boundaries a little, even for me and I love cheese.
Herbie's HeadHunters records are cheesey as hell, but they still work today I think.
BTW Coypu - I just bought Sean Malone's Dictionary of Bass Grooves from musicroom.com - half on your recommenddation of him being agreat player and half because it looked like a good book for getting some 'new' ideas.
Seriously though, Head Hunters, cheesy? I'm not hearing it.
I don't really get what people mean by cheesy sometimes. I mean, it's good, right? So in what way is it cheesy?
To me, cheesy implies some sort of tired cliché, rather than something that was ever genuinely innovative & original?
But it does. For a somewhat younger guy, I listen to all these recordings people tell me to that have synths that sound like an atari game, and it turns me off. There is a lot of expiremental stuff out there back in the day, and a lot of it just plain sounds dated. That is the way the sounds comes across these days, and there is no way to counter it.
As far as Jaco, not everyone is really going to dig that style of playing. But there is a good bit of 'player hating' that goes on with most musicians, as in they hear something and go ' so what? whoopity dooo...'. A lot of good musicians always try to listen to the deeper and more positive aspects, but lets face it, there are a ton of virtuosos out there that not everyone will jump for.
Me personally, I try to listen to good musicians in their context as well as good tunes that move me. But unfortunately, when i start hearing cheesy (IMO) synths and what not, Off it goes. There is a good amount of WR that displays that.
Originally posted by moley
Seriously though, Head Hunters, cheesy? I'm not hearing it.
I don't really get what people mean by cheesy sometimes. I mean, it's good, right? So in what way is it cheesy?
To me, cheesy implies some sort of tired cliché, rather than something that was ever genuinely innovative & original?
I don't hear it either re Headhunters. Some of the stuff on Thrust, for example, with Paul Jackson and Mike Clarke, is among the funkiest stuff I know. Actual Proof, yeah.
I think what's *sometimes* meant by cheesy--and I'm not referring specifically to Howard--is little more than "I can tell it wasn't recorded in the last 5 years." In other words, older-style recording, guitar sounds, drum sounds, synth sounds, whatever. Personally, I don't really care about any of that as long as the music is strong. My own, bias is, if I like the music, the music isn't cheesy, even if some of the sounds are. If I think the music itself is tired, it can be cheesy even if it was done yesterday with the most up to date gear and sounds available.
Absolutely, I comlpetely agree.
...and by "add as much as they can" this to me, might mean not playing at all.
One of my new bands songs hasa key board bass part that sounded so good on keyboard I'm not playing it - I just play this cheesey little melody instead... and it works. Although it is tough NOT playing the bass usual role.
Hmm.
Well, there's always a point in discussion...
If asked I would never say I was a fan of technical music. The concept of creating music specifically to be technical pretty much goes against every bone in my body.
Music is, to me, a form of expression. And akin to every other form of communication the simplest is nearly always the most effective.
In fact when I play I always aim to reduce my bassline to bare minimum... this leave me more space to play around in if needed/desired
But as you said, this doesnt mean what I play is not technical or easy.
I love jazz, I love fusion, I love drum & bass - heck I love almost all music. I own and listen to many records which could be considered technical, but I wont listen to something because it's technical - I'll listen to it because it's good.
Well, *for you* it does. For others, it doesn't. Obviously, it's not a crime to feel that way; you gotta listen to what moves you, and that's that.
I just think you're really missing out if you let that throw you. It would be sort of like not going out with a really great woman or man because that person was wearing last year's hairdo.
I wasn't making a commentary on music in general, I was agreeing that some WR can indeed sound dated
That is all.
Respect.
What do we mean by respect?
I think that we need to define this word.
Should we automaticaly respect an elder out of a sense of obligation etc?
What kind of respect are we talking about? Is it purely an age thing, or a matter of respecting superior ability? Ultimately, shoudn't respect be earned rather than obliged?
What do we mean by respect?
I think that we need to define this word.
Should we automaticaly respect an elder out of a sense of obligation etc?
What kind of respect are we talking about? Is it purely an age thing, or a matter of respecting superior ability? Ultimately, shoudn't respect be earned rather than obliged?
Firstly - my msuic collection is riddled with cheese... and it plays havoc with my CD player
Thrust is not a cheesey album, agreed, it is the funkiest damned thing out there by a long sight. Genius.
Headhunters cheese...
The version of Watermelon Man that starts with those pipes? The keys sound on the choruses is cheesey.. not a patch on weather report, but still cheesey in that it could be in a blaxploitation movie!
Maybe cheesey is the wrong word?
Dont get me wrong I love this record, but I define cheesey as anything that if you play it to a non-music LOVER they'll look at you like you're insane.
Thrust is not a cheesey album, agreed, it is the funkiest damned thing out there by a long sight. Genius.
Headhunters cheese...
The version of Watermelon Man that starts with those pipes? The keys sound on the choruses is cheesey.. not a patch on weather report, but still cheesey in that it could be in a blaxploitation movie!
Maybe cheesey is the wrong word?
Dont get me wrong I love this record, but I define cheesey as anything that if you play it to a non-music LOVER they'll look at you like you're insane.
I think you're missing my point. The issue isn't whether bands should switch to simpler basslines. I don't listen to any of the bands you mentioned, so you may be right about them for all I know. The issue is about how you create a musical experience. *Technical* simplicity and complexity have different musical uses, and they do NOT correlate directly with *musical or emotional* complexity. Frankly, I find a lot of highly technical music boring and superficial, and a lot of simpler music involving and profound. (And it's not because I don't understand highly technical stuff; I'm pretty well educated in that regard.) The opposite is true too IMO: highly technical music can be superb too, and very simple music tedious. It all depends on the individual music and performer.
Good questions, but I think a lot of people don't just give up the respect, because they don't 'get it'. So, sometimes you need to know where the respect should be, ultimately because we/you/they are too immature and underdeveloped to appreciate initially.
Sure there is. It's all in the ear of the beholder. It only comes across that way these days, if you perceive it that way.
To be honest, I hear a whole lot more cheese in today's pop music than I do in all that 70s stuff. Not because the music sounds dated, but because I hear the same old dreary songwriting clichés dragged out again & again with no real spirit.
That's cheesy, to me - and in 20 years, we'll look back at this stuff and say "Gee, doesn't that sound dated?".
Originally posted by Howard K
Firstly - my msuic collection is riddled with cheese... and it plays havoc with my CD player
Thrust is not a cheesey album, agreed, it is the funkiest damned thing out there by a long sight. Genius.
Headhunters cheese...
The version of Watermelon Man that starts with those pipes? The keys sound on the choruses is cheesey.. not a patch on weather report, but still cheesey in that it could be in a blaxploitation movie!
Maybe cheesey is the wrong word?
Dont get me wrong I love this record, but I define cheesey as anything that if you play it to a non-music LOVER they'll look at you like you're insane.
Good points, but 'Return of the Headhunters' has some swiss to it....
Originally posted by Richard Lindsey
I don't hear it either re Headhunters. Some of the stuff on Thrust, for example, with Paul Jackson and Mike Clarke, is among the funkiest stuff I know. Actual Proof, yeah.
I agree. To paraprase the Funk Brothers, you could put a chicken squawing on top of that duo and it would've killed
I think what's *sometimes* meant by cheesy--and I'm not referring specifically to Howard--is little more than "I can tell it wasn't recorded in the last 5 years." In other words, older-style recording, guitar sounds, drum sounds, synth sounds, whatever. Personally, I don't really care about any of that as long as the music is strong. My own, bias is, if I like the music, the music isn't cheesy, even if some of the sounds are. If I think the music itself is tired, it can be cheesy even if it was done yesterday with the most up to date gear and sounds available.
I think lamarjones made a good comparison with the Atari thing. Some old patches still sound great. Others don't hold up so well to the test of time. Kind of like listening to corny early drum machine beats.
Agreed, there is plenty of cheese in today's music as well. But, I think, they both sound dated and cheesed. We aren't really looking back and saying the same thing of old Blue note recordings, that is straight up classy. And there are very cool Weather Report recodrings that were straight up inspiring. But it is expiremental, and not everything can come out like a million bucks. But there is a very big consensus when it comes to the 70's synth sounds. Its not just me, and you know this....man....
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