OK, so I gots both of these pickups...my luthier wants to know which to fit the bridge for...what's your preference and why? Just curious. Oh, and the bass is an old Kay Swingmaster, and I'm doin' lots of pizz, some bowing and slappin' too.
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Double Bass Rev Solo Vs. Bass Max
- Thread starter BeowulfKingsley
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I found them to be very different.
The Bassmax has a bit more of the traditional wing pickup tone. Kinda bright and growly. It is not great with a bow. Pretty scatchy.
The Rev Solo is a bit more dark and woody. Still not great with a bow either IME.
For me I was able to get more gain before feedback with the Bassmax. Not as natural of a sound but I ended up holding onto it as my backup pickup (I use the Realist). I sold the Rev.
The Bassmax has a bit more of the traditional wing pickup tone. Kinda bright and growly. It is not great with a bow. Pretty scatchy.
The Rev Solo is a bit more dark and woody. Still not great with a bow either IME.
For me I was able to get more gain before feedback with the Bassmax. Not as natural of a sound but I ended up holding onto it as my backup pickup (I use the Realist). I sold the Rev.
Beowulf,
If you really bow a lot then neither of those pickups is going to work very well. The Realist is the least expensive pickup that gets a decent sound with the bow IMHO. But, it you're just pulling out the bow for that open E at the end of a tune occasionally then the Revolution Solo will work for that, I guess. The problem that I always had with bridge wing pickups and the bow was that not only does the tone quality get really funky, but the volume is louder so it emphasizes the bad to boot. When I used to have to deal with this I used one of those 7 band Boss EQ pedals, it helped with this problem.
Ric
Thanks Bolo. That was my decision as well, actually. I think I'll just keep the K&K as a spare...but my other bass has a Rev Solo on it and I was playing it tonight and it just sounded way too good not to try again (and understand, I really don't like pickups on the upright at all!). So hopefully this nice old Swingmaster Kay will like the pickup the same way its brother C-1 did...
I think wing pickups like the Rev or Bassmax seem to mind less what bass they are on and more what BRIDGE they are on. IME basses with substantial bridges seem to sound a bit better. This is all from my experience and purely unscientific.
So is the general concensus that the solo is slightly better with the bow? I have a bassmax as a backup for the full circle but was wondering about the rev solo. Even with the boss eq it's difficult to get a good bow sound with the bassmax, would it be worth it to try the solo? Feedback is a concern for me too as most of my gigs are loud.
Mark posted the above in response to my response to his in another thread. See here. I agree completely that one cannot argue with opinions in the sense that one is right or wrong. As I have stated here many times, one cannot meaningfully argue with preferences. I never implied that my opinion was "superior" to Mark's.
One of the most insidious mechanisms used by many on the internet is to say, "It's just opinion" and it's used to legitimize all manner of nonsensical statements. (No, I'm not saying that Mark's statements were, per se, nonsensical). Some of us have read posts in which someone will claim that a $500 eBay special plays better than fully-carved basses costing thousands upon thousands more. That actually was posted here years ago. What are we to make of that? After all, it's just an opinion.
When most of us discuss such matters, we reasonably assume some roughly shared standards by which we commonly judge quality. That's true for double basses, cars, coffee-makers, TVs, musicianship, and on and on and on. Notice that I said roughly shared. When an opinion is expressed that flies in the face of those standards, what are we to make of it?
Such an opinion may reflect that the individual expressing it employs a radically different set of criteria by which to judge quality than the set used by those who employ the roughly shared standards. The individual is entitled to his opinion but we might rightly wish to discount it in terms of providing us with useful information.
One reason the individual's opinions may not align with the shared standards is that he or she simply lacks experience and has not yet learned what are the usual relevant dimensions and/or has not yet had enough experience to discriminate along the relevant dimensions. Such discriminations are, in fact, learned.
Another reason an opinion may differ radically has little to do with experience or the ability to discriminate. Rather, the departures may stem from the fact that the individual's developed preferences deviate radically from what is typical.
Yet other reasons that an opinion may be removed from the shared standards is that the individual expressing it has a bias so strong so as to cloud judgment, is substantially influenced by a conflict of interest, or is being outright disingenuous.
An example I gave in a previous post was this:
Sure, everyone is entitled to his opinion, but you gotta wonder on what an opinion is based when someone tells you that the performance of a Yugo and that of a BMW 5 series are comparable.
Think about it. If such an opinion were expressed, I doubt anyone would ascribe much weight to it. The individual would certainly be entitled to express it and may genuinely prefer the driving characteristics of a Yugo over a BMW 5 series. If one were seeking opinions regarding which vehicle to purchase, I think one would be justified in discounting such a preference. That would, in fact, make other opinions more useful when it came to integrating information that would inform the purchase.
So, while everyone is entitled to an opinion on the internet, some are much more informative than others. It's important to consider the basis of an opinion when deciding what weight to give it.
Lest anyone misconstrue, I am not suggesting that my opinions are generally more informative than those of others.
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What makes the BassMax crude, IMO, is its sound and its construction. On every bass I've had it on and heard it on, it has a midrange-heavy sound that makes a DB sound akin to a BG. It is not nuanced and it doesn't transduce the sonic character of the instrument nearly as well as does the Rev Solo 2. The construction is also quite crude in that it employs cheap materials that, relatively speaking, deteriorate rather quickly. It is a robust device in the sense that you can hang it on any bass with only a small amount of fiddling and you'll get a sound.
I believe the assumption of choice of elements and materials is incorrect. Going back to my Yugo/BMW 5 example, it's akin to saying, "Hey, they both have an engine, wheels, and a suspension, so what's the fundamental difference?" I suggest that you look into the details of the construction of both pickups as I did and you'll have your answer.
It would be relatively easy for any car enthusiast to compare specifications, design choices and manufacturing processes between the BMW and the Yugo in order to demonstrate which was the higher quality and more capable vehicle. You have not yet provided a similar detailed comparison between those two pickups. If you are able to do so, I'd be interested to hear it.
Without that, you are asking us to accept your assertions simply because you have adopted an authoritative tone, rather than from any information you have imparted.
Without that, you are asking us to accept your assertions simply because you have adopted an authoritative tone, rather than from any information you have imparted.
You can compare design choices and manufacturing processes for the two pickups if you're willing to look at them, but I take your point. Even if you did look at objective data with cars, the individual preferring the Yugo would still be just expressing his opinion, with which you couldn't argue. You know as well as I do that one could provide all the objective data possible about the two pickups and it would still come down to how they sound. No one buys a pickup or a car completely based on specs. What you are ignoring is that the opinions I expressed are shared. Many, many players have posted here regarding the absolute and relative merits of these pickups. My opinion regarding the vast differences between them is shared by the majority of those who have weighed in. In addition, I have used both devices across a number of basses. Actually, I do consider my assessment of the acoustic characteristics and spectral profile of each to be somewhat authoritative, but I grant that you don't accept that. So, grab the two pickups and try them for yourself, just as I have done and as others have done. After you do, I'd be interested to hear if you don't regard the two as being of vastly different quality.
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I have used the RSII, and found it to be usable but somewhat finicky about fitting due to the wooden casing. Despite careful fitting, reading every bit of instruction available and trying a variety of amps and preamps, I always found the G string to be thin and a little quieter than other strings and the highs to require heavy EQ to avoid harshness, especially with the bow. I would not choose it again on this bass and bridge, though I accept that it may work better on others.
I haven't used the Bass Max, but my current bridge wing pickup appears to be heavily based on that design and sounds better balanced on my bass, requiring less EQ than the RSII did. I'm afraid I'm not about to spend the cash on the Bass Max for the sake of an online discussion when I already have something that works for me - I have neither the time nor the disposable income.
It is quite reasonable to point out that the Bass Max has a particular midrange character that not all will enjoy, I just remain unconvinced by any absolute judgements on quality which are not accompanied by the information to back that up. I'm sure that you do consider your own assessments to be authoritative, but you would need to demonstrate why I should consider them to be so.
I haven't used the Bass Max, but my current bridge wing pickup appears to be heavily based on that design and sounds better balanced on my bass, requiring less EQ than the RSII did. I'm afraid I'm not about to spend the cash on the Bass Max for the sake of an online discussion when I already have something that works for me - I have neither the time nor the disposable income.
It is quite reasonable to point out that the Bass Max has a particular midrange character that not all will enjoy, I just remain unconvinced by any absolute judgements on quality which are not accompanied by the information to back that up. I'm sure that you do consider your own assessments to be authoritative, but you would need to demonstrate why I should consider them to be so.
Well, we're at am impasse if you're not really comparing to the actual device discussed here. Indeed, the fitting of the RS 2 is finicky and it isn't the right choice for all basses and players.
I, for one, consider Drurb's knowledge regarding electronic systems and theory to be second to none here on the forum. I give heavy weight to his posts and consider him an authority in that world. If you are unfamiliar with, and haven't read much of what he's contributed, I can understand your skepticism as you don't have the "facts". Drurb pointed this general problem out earlier in his responses.
I used to use the Bass Max about 10-12 years ago before I found the Full Circle. I definitely think the Full Circle is a far superior pickup, but I was not terribly unhappy with the Bass Max at the time either. It's true that it sounds a bit more electric-y than the Full Circle, but I liked it better than the other pickups I had tried at that time (Fishman BP-100, Underwood, Gage Realist, Polytone) Plus, at that time I did not have access to the FDeck HPF, which would have made it sound better IMO. My only experience with the Rev Solo has been hearing it on student basses at the Aebersold camps, where I didn't really care for the sound, but that's not a fair comparison as it doesn't take into account the level, experience, or technical know how of the students in question; so take that with a large grain of salt if not an entire salt lick. 
But rather than continue dancing about architecture, I'll post a couple of live clips from the time when I was using the Bass Max, and then people can make up their own minds. I hear the electric-ish aspect to a degree in these recordings, but i also think they allowed the group to make meaningful music. I would be happy to keep a Bass Max in the bag as a backup and not think twice about using it if the FC were to fail. To balance that sentiment, I would also immediately order a new FC and install it as soon as it arrived... but I could still easily make music in the interim.
But rather than continue dancing about architecture, I'll post a couple of live clips from the time when I was using the Bass Max, and then people can make up their own minds. I hear the electric-ish aspect to a degree in these recordings, but i also think they allowed the group to make meaningful music. I would be happy to keep a Bass Max in the bag as a backup and not think twice about using it if the FC were to fail. To balance that sentiment, I would also immediately order a new FC and install it as soon as it arrived... but I could still easily make music in the interim.
I used to use the Bass Max about 10-12 years ago before I found the Full Circle. I definitely think the Full Circle is a far superior pickup, but I was not terribly unhappy with the Bass Max at the time either. It's true that it sounds a bit more electric-y than the Full Circle, but I liked it better than the other pickups I had tried at that time (Fishman BP-100, Underwood, Gage Realist, Polytone) Plus, at that time I did not have access to the FDeck HPF, which would have made it sound better IMO. My only experience with the Rev Solo has been hearing it on student basses at the Aebersold camps, where I didn't really care for the sound, but that's not a fair comparison as it doesn't take into account the level, experience, or technical know how of the students in question; so take that with a large grain of salt if not an entire salt lick.
But rather than continue dancing about architecture, I'll post a couple of live clips from the time when I was using the Bass Max, and then people can make up their own minds. I hear the electric-ish aspect to a degree in these recordings, but i also think they allowed the group to make meaningful music. I would be happy to keep a Bass Max in the bag as a backup and not think twice about using it if the FC were to fail. To balance that sentiment, I would also immediately order a new FC and install it as soon as it arrived... but I could still easily make music in the interim.
As I once said:
Now, where are those clips of the Rev Solo under the same conditions?
I am trying to keep this thread clean, so please let's keep the personal stuff out of the conversation and keep the subject to the pickups themselves. A reminder that the CUP rules apply here to everyone.
If I'd used one, I would have some. But feel free to post any clips of the Rev Solo live. Sound clips are good!
If I'd used one, I would have some. But feel free to post any clips of the Rev Solo live. Sound clips are good!
Plenty have been posted here. Anyone wishing to hear them can find them. Again, I find sound clips to be of very limited value. The comparisons of interest are often swamped by uncontrolled variance along dimensions that one would want controlled. That's my educated opinion.
- Jul 19, 2000
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Excellent. I'm glad we agree regarding opinions that run far afield of what appears to be the "norm."
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