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RHYTHM Guitar - a lost art?

jaywa

jaywa

May 5, 2008
7,702
283
Iowa City, IA
#1
So I've played with a lot of guitarists and it seems like generally their priorities are as follows:

1) lead chops
2) tone/volume
3 (distant) rhythm (i.e., copping a good groove, playing in time, not rushing)

Some guitarists switch priorities 1 and 2 but 3 always seems to be the same. People ask me what guitarists I like and it's always a long time for me to answer because I have to think of guys that really have great rhythm and there aren't many, either locally or "big time".

Curious to hear thoughts... also if any of you are blessed enough to play with a TRUE rhythm guitarist and want to give him or her their props, do it here!
 
#4
I play rhythm guitar in my band. I also take a lead section here and there. But we're the kind of band that has one solo every four songs, not four solos every one song. Plus there are two other guitarists and a bass player.

In that kind of situation you learn what musical stability is when each member is thinking purely about making the song hold up rather than glorifying his own featured part in it. Generally, the way we build arrangements is we'll have a core of drums/bass/rhythm guitar, then the other two guitarist weave harmony and melodies around that. Sections where we have just one guy noodling on the high notes while everyone else plays the root are few and far between.

We also write all our solos and lock them more or less down so they're properly part of the songs, not just an excuse for so-and-so to go to the front and waggle his axe at the fans.
 
#5
jaywa said:
People ask me what guitarists I like and it's always a long time for me to answer because I have to think of guys that really have great rhythm and there aren't many, either locally or "big time".
Click to expand...

Keith Richards, Pete Townsend and Alex Lifeson. Three of the best rock rhythm guitarists ever. It doesn't get any better than these guys... :cool:

MM
 
#7
Good comments. My faves in that regard... Nile Rodgers, Stevie Ray Vaughn, pretty much any guy that's ever played with James Brown, Brad Paisley, and believe it or not, Eddie Van Halen.

Someone also mentioned Steve Miller and I love that guy cause he always puts the song before the guitar part. Same deal with the Edge.

Max, nice to hear your perspectives. My band has an identical lineup to yours (3 gtrs, bass and drums) and after 3+ years we're just now figuring out how to make it all "work".
 
#9
Tom Petty, Keith Richards, Dave Matthews .. but I'd agree it is largely a lost art as far as rock is concerned. SRV and Hendrix could both play rythym quite well. In a trio you have to .

I find the older I get the less lead I play when I'm playing guitar. Serving the song is more important than the ego trip.

So much of guitar is wrapped up in trying to be a "gunslinger"
 
#10
Dicky Betts is the rare example of a cat that can do both, rip AND rhythm. Plus it's in his own voice, with exemplary dynamics/melody, and endless invention. Check out the way he sets up most every groove on Evening With The Allman Brothers Set 1, especially Where It All Begins, and South Bound.

Too bad he is flaming out and prefers to be a drunken tool these days.

What's even more amazing is they got Warren Haynes, another multi-faceted groover.

Even though I'm not that big a fan (always a Jerry guy) Bob Weir is a masterful rhythm guitar player. The guy knows more inversions/substitutions than god.

I'll give my biggest rhythm guitar nod to Malcomb Young, Angus' unsung brother and the REAL driving force of AC-DC. His parts are the soul/juice of every song, on every record.
 
#12
Dickie ain't playing with the Allmans anymore.

As far as guitarist, you don't have to have one, but if you do, teach em to work the top 4 strings and not to hit the bottom E string, esp. when its the 5 of the chord!
 
#14
I'm not sure which is worse, playing with a guy who just wants to solo or a guy that thinks rhythm guitar means barre chords chugging 8 to the bar. There is nothing more distracting than hearing George Thorogood chugging through Black Magic Woman. My guy has no idea about chord inversions or alternate voicing but he has a great Pa system.
 
#15
Lots of love for Leo Nocentelli (from the Meters).

Locally, there's a couple of guys that really "get" it. They lay down just the right backing parts that really scratch the itch and they have great tone. They also take the best solos. (I don't think this is a coincidence - IMO time, taste & tone are crucial no matter what you're doing.)

There's a bunch of guys who mean well and work OK on a gig but don't quite have THE touch. And, of course, there's the "noodle poodles" who have completely thrown out the baby with the bath water. :p
 
#16
jaywa said:
So I've played with a lot of guitarists and it seems like generally their priorities are as follows:

1) lead chops
2) tone/volume
3 (distant) rhythm (i.e., copping a good groove, playing in time, not rushing)

Some guitarists switch priorities 1 and 2 but 3 always seems to be the same. People ask me what guitarists I like and it's always a long time for me to answer because I have to think of guys that really have great rhythm and there aren't many, either locally or "big time".

Curious to hear thoughts... also if any of you are blessed enough to play with a TRUE rhythm guitarist and want to give him or her their props, do it here!
Click to expand...

Interesting... I never really thought too much about that. I find that the last few guitarists I've been in bands with had pretty terrible rhythm once you remove the drums. (Almost "unjamable"). I don't want to start some sort of war, because all this is IME, but these were the people that played with distortion 100% practicing and rehearsal. Maybe the distortion gives them some sort of leeway where they don't notice that they're off at spots and it sounds "good enough" to them so they find no reason to correct it. I was appalled when I asked my guitarist friends if they practice with a metronome or drum machine. Only one of them did! :eek:
 
#17
I guess in my band (two guitars, bass and drums), when one of the guitarists is singing the other does a lot with the rhythm. Both are still playing, but our "lead" guitarist covers a lot of rhythm. This is not to take away from our front man "rhythm" guitarist. He does a great job of being our lead vocalist and that's where his priorities should be at those moments. I have no complaints about his rhythm playing either - I've done three piece things with him and he's fine. Plays a good lead, too. We all want to make the band sound good. No one needs to worry about the spotlight.

KO
 
#19
Pretty easy to know if your guitarist has good time or not... have the drummer give 4 clicks, then lay out for four bars while the guitarist plays the progression and see if he and the drummer come back in at the same time without any cheating (hi-hat or clicks or anything). Assuming of course your drummer is solid.

And, just to clarify... what I'm getting at is not only being able to comp well, but when the guitarist takes a lead they're hitting the notes in time and not rushing or dragging the phrasing. There are some pretty dramatic recorded examples of leads just going completely off the rails rhythm wise (80s hair bands being some of the prime culprits.)
 

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