I just started reading up on Ibanez and their lawsuit era guitars and basses. And the more I read and learn, the more I want a piece of history in copyright infringement! Clone, copy, knockoff, fake, whatever you want to call these beauties, they definately deserve your respect and appreciation.
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Rickenbacker Clone?
- Thread starter afzoomie67
- Start date
I opened my 4001 today, it's filled with cheap japanse capacitors, mexican "CTS-knockoff" potentiometers,...
So much for the "we use exclusively USA parts, except the tuners" :scowl:
Ummm... because they aren't an identical copy.
The 70s era Japanese Univox/Greco/Ibanez clones I've played have by and large been VERY well built instruments. The few "modern" copies I've touched have been junk.
With all the copies out there, you cannot tell me just because you own an "original" (and I own more originals than probably everyone on this board) that there are no good copies of the Ric bass. In fact, although a bolt-on neck, the Ibanez 1977 model copy of the Ric was known to outplay and outdo the Ric original in tone. Don't believe me, ask John. He's an honest guy and will attest to that fact. The early model Tokai Rockingbetter was a great neck-thru knock-off before they made the neck profile changes in 06, but prior to that, I bet most of you wouldn't have known the difference. They were that good of a carbon-copy of the Ric which is why if you can find an '03 model or even before, you'll pay for it probably a grand or so. I love all my Rics, but I do adore my '77 and '79 Ibanez wanna-be-Rics too for their playabilty and exquisite tonal control and sounds. Please don't fall into the "Only a Ric will ever do" without OWNING a clone like the Ibanez, you're only short-changing yourself and limiting the potential to have a Ric at a show WITHOUT taking your Ric on an outdoor show and potentially losing it to bad conditions. My experience with Rics, I am a lefty converted "Paul" for Beatlemania and own over 14 Ric basses and 2 Ibanez clones and 5 Ric "V" series Ric guitars.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
If you live in Europe get one of these ... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I really want a probass 5 string Ric copy because Rickenbacker either can't or won't make a 5 string bass so I would love one of these.
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I really want a probass 5 string Ric copy because Rickenbacker either can't or won't make a 5 string bass so I would love one of these.
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Sadly, I don't. But I have seen them around before. They're sharp looking. I saw them back when they had more stock..
Or if you also want the sound of hundreds of awesome albums featuring Rickenbackers...
Then, get one.
Ah, I wouldn't go that far.
They are both basses
Maybe I was lucky and got a really good one. That being said, I'm not such a purist. I've changed pots, took off the pain in the @ss bridge pup cover, etc...
I still don't get the idea that a copy is "more comfortable" (or what that even means honestly... I have yet to meet an uncomfortable bass, maybe I'm just a big idiot though? I don't get why people bitch about scale length, nut width and string spacing so much either, they all get the job done).
If someone's happy with a clone I'm cool with that. Protecting trademarks is Rickenbacker's problem (and I respect their right to do it, just not interested in doing it for them). I guess what I don't get is the idea that clones are somehow better when they are made on a budget on the sole basis of copying the LOOKS of an instrument in order to make a sale; then again TB is basically one big collection of guys going "Bass A is better than Bass B and I have nothing to back that up with," so why am I surprised again? Nevermind.
Having been in the musical instrument retail business on and off for a few years now and having seen what I've seen, I totally agree.
Yes, the Ibanez law suit knock offs were pretty good. But every clone I've seen so far in person has been made for the budget-minded person, who can't either save a little bit more, exhibit a little more patience, or in most cases both. I've spent $750 on my first 4003 and an additional $750 on an 81 4001. I've owned 20 more since then and I've never spent over a grand. Just get the real deal.
I once had a Hondo(II ?) Ric copy (paid a hundred for it) As far as I could tell, it was a fairly accurate copy right down to the dual output jacks and Fire-glo type finish and seemed in general to be a fairly well made bass. (no clue as to how old it was, I had it in the early 80's and it seemed realtively new, perhaps mid to late 70's)
Unfortunately it had a badly bowed neck that made it very uncomfortable to play (which is likely why I got it so cheap) and I got rid of it soon after. At the time I was utterly clueless about setups and trussrod adjustments, and I can't help but wonder what it might have been like with a proper setup. Oh, and as far as tone goes, no clue. My amp setup at the time was a pretty bad combination of and Ampeg B25-B cab and a 100-120 wattt AIMS guitar head. Sounded like crap.
Unfortunately it had a badly bowed neck that made it very uncomfortable to play (which is likely why I got it so cheap) and I got rid of it soon after. At the time I was utterly clueless about setups and trussrod adjustments, and I can't help but wonder what it might have been like with a proper setup. Oh, and as far as tone goes, no clue. My amp setup at the time was a pretty bad combination of and Ampeg B25-B cab and a 100-120 wattt AIMS guitar head. Sounded like crap.
The fact that old Rick copies demand high prices is comparable to Tulip Mania.
I mean, on one hand you could argue that a Rickenbacker 4001 is just a rather leftfield Jazz bass copy with some unique features. Rickenbacker put the importance of 'period correct' features ahead of ergonomics or (in some cases) common sense. They require work to hit their optimal performance levels in an age where people are not so used to the concept of user-servicing in general be it instruments, cars or other tech...
Moreover for the 'hunderds' of classic Rick albums out there I can only think of a few. The '70s Rush albums and the earlier Yes albums spring to mind, but in both cases you could argue these were classic Ampeg or classic roundwound albums as much as the Rick input. I cannot say what studio trickery went into those albums but it seems some people equate Rick tone with 'trebly breakup roundwound tone' which you can get from a Squier Bronco on a good day with the right amps....
It depends on who you are trying to convince when you say "Ricks cannot be copied" when actually most of the elements are out there in other basses, and the Rick tone is such a sticky wicket to begin with. I wonder what percentage of the forum users would recognise a Rick strung with flatwounds that quickly....
I won't be shelling out for a Tokai Rockinbetter any time soon either. I played one in a shop and it seemed that Tokai had forgotten to ground the bridge as it had about 90% more hum than any other bass I tried that day through the exact same rig (including an SX P-bass clone). Would it cost £500 if it didn't have 'that' shape?
In my mind Rickenbackers are one of the more classy looking basses out there, but in a world of boutique makers and small-run hand made basses to argue that Ricks are superior because of their idiosyncratic production values is somewhat strange. Think Emperor's new clothes and all that. When you could only get a few Fenders and a few Gibsons in the market that would survive gigging then I can see the argument in favour of a Rick instrument, but I think the market is so different now....
I mean, on one hand you could argue that a Rickenbacker 4001 is just a rather leftfield Jazz bass copy with some unique features. Rickenbacker put the importance of 'period correct' features ahead of ergonomics or (in some cases) common sense. They require work to hit their optimal performance levels in an age where people are not so used to the concept of user-servicing in general be it instruments, cars or other tech...
Moreover for the 'hunderds' of classic Rick albums out there I can only think of a few. The '70s Rush albums and the earlier Yes albums spring to mind, but in both cases you could argue these were classic Ampeg or classic roundwound albums as much as the Rick input. I cannot say what studio trickery went into those albums but it seems some people equate Rick tone with 'trebly breakup roundwound tone' which you can get from a Squier Bronco on a good day with the right amps....
It depends on who you are trying to convince when you say "Ricks cannot be copied" when actually most of the elements are out there in other basses, and the Rick tone is such a sticky wicket to begin with. I wonder what percentage of the forum users would recognise a Rick strung with flatwounds that quickly....
I won't be shelling out for a Tokai Rockinbetter any time soon either. I played one in a shop and it seemed that Tokai had forgotten to ground the bridge as it had about 90% more hum than any other bass I tried that day through the exact same rig (including an SX P-bass clone). Would it cost £500 if it didn't have 'that' shape?
In my mind Rickenbackers are one of the more classy looking basses out there, but in a world of boutique makers and small-run hand made basses to argue that Ricks are superior because of their idiosyncratic production values is somewhat strange. Think Emperor's new clothes and all that. When you could only get a few Fenders and a few Gibsons in the market that would survive gigging then I can see the argument in favour of a Rick instrument, but I think the market is so different now....
See, none of the stuff you are thinking of defines Rics for me, or why I got into them. It was exclusively because of Paul d'Amour's work with Tool in the early '90s, which sounds nothing like the stuff you are referring to. I was just at a store today, demoing P Basses (I do it all the time because I constantly GAS for another Fender, even though I always end up selling them) and my wife was with me... chiming in with her usual, "Sounds good but it's no Ric." And she's right. The Rics have a deeper sound than the Fenders but more definition than something like a Hofner. It's a line drawn in the sand and I love where the Ric puts it. Paul d'Amour used it to great effect on Undertow, for sure.
I'm sure they can be copied perfectly if someone wants but the builders who know what they are doing usually don't bother, because with the laws in place it's not profitable. So the copies that do exist, at least the ones I've played, are kind of terrible. I would proudly brandish an SX before playing any of those things.
Yeah, and that's why I find the copies annoying. They're just trying to get by on looks that are clearly protected IP. If they are really so proud of their great product it shouldn't have to look like a Ric to sell.
I would love to find something to replace my Rics with but I sure can't, as hard as I have tried. It's my wife, as a layperson, who tends to put me in check when I'm shopping around for new basses. Or occasionally my band like when I bought a Dingwall and they criticized me for trying to replace the Ric that was already working. The Dingwall didn't fit the bill and couldn't touch the Ric for tone even though I guarantee you most people on here would put a Dingwall far above a Ric in their estimation. By the way, I'm still in the market for a Dingwall... haha. I have no idea why to be honest. There's nothing I could really improve on from my Ric at this point. I have tried just about everything.
I have no stake in anyone else liking Rics, I suppose, but I do find it kind of annoying when people question the brand as a whole because the way some talk you'd have to be a quack to play one. It doesn't matter what others think--but the funny thing is that all of this negativity and criticism has caused me to frequently check for alternatives all these years and I sure as hell can't find one. Are Rics a bit of an odd bird overall? You bet. Maybe that's part of why they're still such a success. They're one of the few options out there that hasn't conformed to the overall Fender-based "standardization" of things, to 34'' scale, P, J, or PJ, this or that string spacing, nut width, neck taper, bridge type, etc. I would change some things about the stock 4003 myself, but overall I'm happier they are the way they are today and I have to mod them a bit than if they had gone with the flow all the time and were basically straight Jazz copies with funny headstocks at this point.
Before you say anything about QC issues... I completely agree. These basses are great, they deserve to be made great, and for whatever reason when a customer gets a new Ric that's less than perfect, I hate that and I want to believe RIC hates that too. But I have no way of knowing that and no desire to speak for them or as their advocate.
BTW -
There's a very nice looking copy on the bay right now, neck through with checkerboard binding.
Electra Corsair Bass - Mid to Late 70
Looks like a real nice bass - but look at the crazy bidding on the thing. When they go for that much might as well spend a bit more and get a real one.
There's a very nice looking copy on the bay right now, neck through with checkerboard binding.
Electra Corsair Bass - Mid to Late 70
Looks like a real nice bass - but look at the crazy bidding on the thing. When they go for that much might as well spend a bit more and get a real one.
As an eBay Associate, TalkBass may earn a commission from qualifying purchases.
I had a really lovely Cortley 4001 copy that I bought new years ago, it was beautiful, a bolt on neck, sounded and played well but not the same as a Ric. I later bought a Ric 4001 fretless that wound up getting stolen. Loved that bass. I don't have anything against copies, that's all alot of us can afford and look at all the many big name brands that are Fender clones. I really didn't know about all the problems with Rickenbacker bridges till reading that on this site. I bet that's why they don't make 5 strings
