Rickenbacker finish issue (Resolved by RIC)

[Gilmourisgod]

QC problems are a predictable side effect of a 2 year production backlog. Bad QC leads to bad CS as a defensive maneuver, because warranty repairs are off the production line and eat up time and resources. The employees are pressured to keep shoveling stuff out the door, so they shoot one thicker coat of UV clearcoat, zap it, and buff it out ASAP. One advantage of the old school poisonous finishes is they took a while to cure, so that got built into production. The hardware gets screwed down before the finish is fully cured, and nobody bothered to check the bridge castings for flatness or bumps, so it damages the clearcoat. The final inspection gets rushed, and out the door it goes. Basic Behavioral Science: actions that increase profit with no negative effect on sales are reinforced over time. I'd expect to see this kind of problem on a cheap Indonesian or Chinese clone, but Hall is always harping about pride in American Manufacturing, so he needs to Walk the Walk, not just talk. Given his abrasive public persona, things can only get better when he retires (I hope). People talk up WW and POTR on TB as a way to avoid dealing with Ric CS at all, I think WW needs to justify buying through them by really going to bat for the OP. If they don't, what's the advantage buying through them vs MF or GC?

 

[Wolfenstein666]

QC problems are a predictable side effect of a 2 year production backlog. Bad QC leads to bad CS as a defensive maneuver, because warranty repairs are off the production line and eat up time and resources. The employees are pressured to keep shoveling stuff out the door, so they shoot one thicker coat of UV clearcoat, zap it, and buff it out ASAP. One advantage of the old school poisonous finishes is they took a while to cure, so that got built into production. The hardware gets screwed down before the finish is fully cured, and nobody bothered to check the bridge castings for flatness or bumps, so it damages the clearcoat. The final inspection gets rushed, and out the door it goes. Basic Behavioral Science: actions that increase profit with no negative effect on sales are reinforced over time. I'd expect to see this kind of problem on a cheap Indonesian or Chinese clone, but Hall is always harping about pride in American Manufacturing, so he needs to Walk the Walk, not just talk. Given his abrasive public persona, things can only get better when he retires (I hope). People talk up WW and POTR on TB as a way to avoid dealing with Ric CS at all, I think WW needs to justify buying through them by really going to bat for the OP. If they don't, what's the advantage buying through them vs MF or GC?

I think the big advantage (as far as I see it) is that WW really REALLY inspects their basses before sending them out, whereas if you buy online at MF or GC they just wrap it up and ship it. I've never heard of anyone getting a 'bad bass' right out of the gate from WW, in fact one poster on here just a few weeks ago said that he called WW looking for a JG (I think) and that they had 3 there, but 2 had bubbles in the finish already and he sent him the only good one they had.

I think at the end of the day WW does the best they can with what they are given product wise, and they've already helped immensely. Just the fact that they followed up with me almost immediately 5 months after the sale shows (to me anyway) that they are pretty committed to making a customer happy. At the end of the day, the bass shipped from them with no defect. They don't have a crystal ball, they can't tell what will be a problem on a guitar 6 months down the line. I would still recommend them to anyone looking to buy a quality guitar, their reputation shouldn't suffer because of a fault (perceived or otherwise) on RIC's end.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

.... At the end of the day, the bass shipped from them with no defect. They don't have a crystal ball, they can't tell what will be a problem on a guitar 6 months down the line....

While true, Ric knows about the consistent finish problem at the bridge area. They know the finish doesn't fail until a few mos have passed. They are merely banking on just a small percentage of them failing, fewer people taking advantage of the warranty protection, and while keeping their fingers crossed, hoping that a year has passed until it fails or is noticed by the customer. How Ric can view the customer with such disdain reflects poorly on the state of US business.

If I were Taylor, EBMM, or other US owned instrument manufacturer, I would petition to NAMM for Rics removal as a member as their behavior reflects poorly on the entire industry whether JH thinks so or not.

 

[AltGrendel]

Just to clarify to everyone; I came and posted this thread to try to receive some advice on how to deal with the finish problem myself. I have given RIC due diligence and contacted them and am waiting for a response. They have done nothing wrong yet besides a sort of shady phone call, apart from that everything that has been done is well within their rights as a company.

I am at this point simply chronicling my experience with warranty and will try to provide an unbiased, factual account of what happens. Again, my intention was not / is not a hate thread in any way, shape, or form. I'm not calling anyone out because no one has started the hate (yay!) I just wished to clarify my intentions to keep the scope of the thread relevant.

Again, thanks for everyone who chimed in with advice and kind words. I will keep this thread updated as I continue to correspond with RIC.

I salute you, sir.

Best of luck.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

While true, Ric knows about the consistent finish problem at the bridge area. They know the finish doesn't fail until a few mos have passed. They are merely banking on just a small percentage of them failing, fewer people taking advantage of the warranty protection, and while keeping their fingers crossed, hoping that a year has passed until it fails or is noticed by the customer. How Ric can view the customer with such disdain reflects poorly on the state of US business.

If I were Taylor, EBMM, or other US owned instrument manufacturer, I would petition to NAMM for Rics removal as a member as their behavior reflects poorly on the entire industry whether JH thinks so or not.

I am in no way arguing or disagreeing with you. A defect is a defect, and if it's a well known problem the manufacturer has an obligation to address it. Is what I meant is that you can't discredit the honest retailers who do their best with what their given to try to satisfy their customers.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I am in no way arguing or disagreeing with you. A defect is a defect, and if it's a well known problem the manufacturer has an obligation to address it. Is what I meant is that you can't discredit the honest retailers who do their best with what their given to try to satisfy their customers.

Yup. And WW is one of the best out there! They regularly go out of their way to make sure the customer is taken care of.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I'm glad to hear that WW is being standup about it, sounds like their good reputation is deserved then. GC has a decent return policy, and you do get to look over your bass with a microscope before you buy, but if this finish lift happens after weeks or months, you'd probably be beyond GC's return window anyway. I remember pointing out the finish bubbles and bowed neck on two of the three Rics I tried at GC to the profoundly vacant and indifferent young sales guy, he just kind of shrugged. They won't lift a finger to set up a bass unless you have cash in hand, and it was pretty obvious they were planning on selling the bubbled finish bass as-is.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

I'm glad to hear that WW is being standup about it, sounds like their good reputation is deserved then. GC has a decent return policy, and you do get to look over your bass with a microscope before you buy, but if this finish lift happens after weeks or months, you'd probably be beyond GC's return window anyway. I remember pointing out the finish bubbles and bowed neck on two of the three Rics I tried at GC to the profoundly vacant and indifferent young sales guy, he just kind of shrugged. They won't lift a finger to set up a bass unless you have cash in hand, and it was pretty obvious they were planning on selling the bubbled finish bass as-is.

I always die a little inside going into a GC. They just don't care, its the Wally World of music. And I wouldn't trust a GC setup AT ALL. I'd much rather do it myself or take it to the guy I trust.

WW deserves every bit of their fantastic reputation. I would go out of my way to recommend someone to them.

 

[Searay]

Wolf,

No it has not gotten larger since I noticed it in approximately November 2015. But, to that end, when I noticed it, it was larger than not being there at all,....

It has to be that UV paint and curing process. I've read all the threads and watched the factory tour several times. My only thought would be that there is slightly less time available to let the processes complete. I have observed that all the crooked pickups are in the same direction. Maybe as they sit in the rack waiting for the next operation, they all tilt as the epoxy finishes drying. The paint process is totally new, and that is really the only place on the instrument that a large mass contacts the body/paint/finish with such force.

I have a friend that has a Mexifender Telecaster that the finish comes off in big chunks. The back is almost half bare wood.

 

[Searay]

And yes, I bought mine from WW as well. A+

 

[JMacBass65]

My wife gets excellent CS from almost everyone because she is doggedly persistent working her way up the hierarchy of call center flunkies until she reaches someone capable of actually making a decision. It's become a deliberate discouragement tactic with many corporations, and it usually works. Notice how many websites deliberately hide or obscure phone contact info? Comcast is the reigning champ at this. The squeaky wheel eventually gets the oil.

I agree. I used to think it was "call center flunkies" but now I think it deliberate.

Not to completely derail, but my local multiple listing service (I'm a realtor) is the absolute worst. Thing is, they are a monopoly, and they act like it. Every time I have a technical issue, I go through the normal reporting process, only to eventually be told "you are using it wrong". I then do two things - escalate to second level support (always to be told the same thing), and I hit their Facebook page.

Now - hitting FB has yet to result in a problem being fixed, however, every time I have done it it results in a phone call from either the product development manager or the customer relations manager. At least then I get some acknowledgement that there is a design or coding flaw.

Of course, they never do fix it, so not sure what the point it. Although, for $700/year I will at least have the satisfaction of venting to people upThe management chain.

/rant

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

I always die a little inside going into a GC. They just don't care, its the Wally World of music. And I wouldn't trust a GC setup AT ALL. I'd much rather do it myself or take it to the guy I trust.

WW deserves every bit of their fantastic reputation. I would go out of my way to recommend someone to them.

It's a bit off topic, but I want to say that Dean at the Orlando GC is a really good tech. It's funny b/c he gets slammed with business and none of the staff seem to help him at all. He has set up my bass a couple times without charging me b/c i had just bought my bass. First he took the string guard off, then put it back on, both times at my request. After I tried to adjust the pickup myself and screwed it up, he fixed it without charging me. He is a very good tech and a nice guy.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

It's a bit off topic, but I want to say that Dean at the Orlando GC is a really good tech. It's funny b/c he gets slammed with business and none of the staff seem to help him at all. He has set up my bass a couple times without charging me b/c i had just bought my bass. First he took the string guard off, then put it back on, both times at my request. After I tried to adjust the pickup myself and screwed it up, he fixed it without charging me. He is a very good tech and a nice guy.

I should've clarified that a little more; I wouldn't trust MY local GC with a setup. There's a couple of dudes there that seem to know what they're doing but the majority just look like college kids who own a couple of Beatles albums.

Quick update; Still waiting for a response to my email from RIC. He said I will hear from them today, and if I don't I will be making another call to them tomorrow.

 

[Fishheadjoe]

OP, I admire your approach to dealing with this challenge, I can't say I would be as calm as you.
Fishheadjoe

 

[RRDieselbass]

I have been planning to purchase another new 4003 Jetglo later this year. I will look forward to hear what the outcome is for OP. This current manufacturing problem definitely makes me consider buying a used older model.

 

[grimmchaos]

I think the big advantage (as far as I see it) is that WW really REALLY inspects their basses before sending them out, whereas if you buy online at MF or GC they just wrap it up and ship it. I've never heard of anyone getting a 'bad bass' right out of the gate from WW, in fact one poster on here just a few weeks ago said that he called WW looking for a JG (I think) and that they had 3 there, but 2 had bubbles in the finish already and he sent him the only good one they had.

That was me. The original JG they had on their website had a bubble forming near the bridge, so Bruce pulled 2 more brand new out of their cases and sent me pictures and their stats so I could pick which one I want. WW does rock.

Mine was built in September of 2015 so I will have to keep my eyes open for the same issue.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

UPDATE

Just received an email from Rickenbacker. I will post exact texts from their emails and my responses, omitting any sensitive personal information.

My Email to RIC:

My name is ________, I just spoke to ____ on the phone.

I have a rickenbacker 4003, serial number _______, purchased thru Wild Wood guitars in Colorado on 9/4/15.

When I received the bass it was flawless. However yesterday I noticed a finish bubble forming around the bridge. The factory installed strings are still on the guitar, and no solutions or cleaners have ever been applied to the surface or finish. According to the serial number this bass was manufactured in July of 2015, leaving it within the year date from manufacture for finish defects.

Attached are several pictures of the bass when I received it, and of the bubble that has recently formed along with the original sales invoice from my purchase.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

_________

The response I just received:

Hi _______,


I would be more than happy to help you with this. Have you sent in the
warranty card for the instrument? I looked it up in our warranty database
and the instrument has yet to be registered and as a result the warranty has
not been activated yet. We do need the warranty card to be filled out and
mailed in to us before we can assist with pursuing warranty work.

Take care,

Rickenbacker Customer Service

My response:

Thank you for the response.
I have not filled out the warranty card, however, on page 8 of the owners manual it states "Warranty Repair Should any warranty repairs be necessary, we must have your warranty card on file or you must supply the original sales slip showing the date of purchase, model, and serial number."
I did not submit my warranty card, I do however have the aforementioned sales slip showing ship date, serial and model number, date of purchase and invoice number from an Authorized Rickenbacker Retailer. I included this slip with my last email, and have also attached it to this email for your convenience.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
________

I am now waiting to hear back.

 

[charlie monroe]

Layer number 2 of no warranty card brush off? Check.

Looks intended and systemic to me.

 

[Fishheadjoe]

UPDATE

Just received an email from Rickenbacker. I will post exact texts from their emails and my responses, omitting any sensitive personal information.

My Email to RIC:

My name is ________, I just spoke to ____ on the phone.

I have a rickenbacker 4003, serial number _______, purchased thru Wild Wood guitars in Colorado on 9/4/15.

When I received the bass it was flawless. However yesterday I noticed a finish bubble forming around the bridge. The factory installed strings are still on the guitar, and no solutions or cleaners have ever been applied to the surface or finish. According to the serial number this bass was manufactured in July of 2015, leaving it within the year date from manufacture for finish defects.

Attached are several pictures of the bass when I received it, and of the bubble that has recently formed along with the original sales invoice from my purchase.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

_________

The response I just received:

Hi _______,


I would be more than happy to help you with this. Have you sent in the
warranty card for the instrument? I looked it up in our warranty database
and the instrument has yet to be registered and as a result the warranty has
not been activated yet. We do need the warranty card to be filled out and
mailed in to us before we can assist with pursuing warranty work.

Take care,

Rickenbacker Customer Service

My response:

Thank you for the response.
I have not filled out the warranty card, however, on page 8 of the owners manual it states "Warranty Repair Should any warranty repairs be necessary, we must have your warranty card on file or you must supply the original sales slip showing the date of purchase, model, and serial number."
I did not submit my warranty card, I do however have the aforementioned sales slip showing ship date, serial and model number, date of purchase and invoice number from an Authorized Rickenbacker Retailer. I included this slip with my last email, and have also attached it to this email for your convenience.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
________

I am now waiting to hear back.

Sounds like the worm is trying to wiggle off the hook! I be most folks would simply mail the card and wait until it should have arrived, then follow up. i hope they make this right and do so in a manner that makes the OP feel like he is getting the service his dollars spent demand.
Fishheadjoe

 

[Handyman]

You may also want to point out that this "you didn't send in the warranty card" nonsense is a violation of federal law. They already know it is, but there are reports of them shutting about about if a customer points it out.

Way to deliver great and totally non-sleazy customer service, Ric!