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Rig advice

pickettj

pickettj

Jun 25, 2011
98
0
www.jacklefty.com
#1
I'm currently looking at upgrading my rig from an "Acousic B450" combo amp to a separate rack mounted amp and cab. When I started looking I was dead set on MarkBass. While I still have much love for the people at MarkBass (even though I've never played through or heard one played, purely word of mouth and advertising dollars well spent) I'm looking at something that isn't going to cost me mega $$ just because of a name. The markbass setup I was looking at was the 104HR and the little mark tube 800. The total cost is around $2,000 (my budget). I did a little research and found a few amps and cabs that have piqued my interest but not knowing anything about them, I'm weary of dropping the cash on them.

The amp:
I have found the Ampeg SVT Pro series most appealing and realize that it's a LOT of power but I should NEVER need to upgrade from the setup I'm putting together. Since the bass rig turns in to a personal monitor at larger gigs (if we ever play a local festival type setup) the rig doesn't have to get to the crowd, just me. I'll be running direct in that situation. I like the SVT-4 but it seems like maybe it's overkill. The SVT-7 seems like it may be more in line with what I need for my cab.

The cab/s:
I've seen several that I liked. I'm obviously overpowered for the 104HR and if I get enough advice that the rig I'm building is ridiculous then I may look at scaling back to the MarkBass type power levels. The first cab I found was the Avatar B410 Neo. It's 1,200 watts and, again, more than enough for our setup. My concern with Avatar is that everyone seems to love them but only so far. Their love always comes with a conditional "for the price" statement. A 1,200 watt 4x10 setup for $700 delivered to my door seems cheap so it is a concern.

The other cabs have been the standard markbass 104HR, an Ampeg "Fridge" (but for the venues we will be playing, this will not only be gaudy because of its size, I will probably never fully utilize an 8x10 setup). I've even looked at the Eden cabs. The Eden cabs seem like they are a high end boutique and possibly a higher quality but that cab is double the price and 200 less watts of power than the Avatar setup so, again, my concern is paying for a name.

In the end, I'd love feedback on my ideas and also ANY suggestions for setups. A little info on the band to help:

The lead guitar player plays a 60w(I think?) Vox tube amp. The rhythm guy plays a Marshall stack 4xsomething with a tube head that he usually plays in power reduction mode so he doesn't deafen us all.

The drummer is on Gretsch catalina maples and is mic'ed at the bass drum, toms and snare.

Our music is rock. Soft rock (Radiohead, flickerstick), Classic Rock (Tom Petty, T. Rex), Rock alternative (Foo Fighters, Jet, Kings of Leon) & some heavier stuff (Saving Abel, Alice In Chains).

Thanks, in advance, for your help. You guys have always been a great resource for me. Hopefully some day I can turn around and actually post replies on this thing! Ha!

-Stupid Bass Player Pickettj
 
#6
pickettj said:
I've seen the fEARful cabs and didn't know what to think of the 6 they put in there...
Click to expand...

Well you know you like the 7-pro so that is an easy choice. Avatar cabs are cheap. 3/4" plywood makes my back hurt thinking about it. 1,200 watt power handling in a 410 is a line of marketing, probably closer to ~500 watts. I think markbass stuff is overpriced for what you get, imo.

A fEARful 15/6 will be more expensive than an avatar 410 if an authorized builder makes one for you. It's a better cab. If you are a DIY'er you can build one for way less.

Don't be afraid of that mid driver. It works with the of driver via a proper cross over.
 
#9
CL400Peavey said:
Well you know you like the 7-pro so that is an easy choice. Avatar cabs are cheap. 3/4" plywood makes my back hurt thinking about it. 1,200 watt power handling in a 410 is a line of marketing, probably closer to ~500 watts. I think markbass stuff is overpriced for what you get, imo.

A fEARful 15/6 will be more expensive than an avatar 410 if an authorized builder makes one for you. It's a better cab. If you are a DIY'er you can build one for way less.

Don't be afraid of that mid driver. It works with the of driver via a proper cross over.
Click to expand...

I worried about that. I looked in to the Eden lines but they just seem rediculous. I'm sure it's nice, but $1,100 nice? Probably not.

And I know the MarkBass is overpriced. I compare it to Advil vs Walgreens Ibuprofen. Same product but Advil is twice the price because of the name. That's kind of the reason I've been trying to shop around off of the main stream stuff. That and I'd like to buy something that I know someone took some care in building. Not some assembly line product. If I'm going to drop two grand on a new setup I want it to be perfect. It will probably be the last setup I buy. That is, unless I become rich and famous and start playing on big stages. :rolleyes:
 
#10
Joe Louvar said:
Have you checked out a GK MB800? :D

Don't get disappointed - hopefully JimmyM will see your thread and help you - Jimmy can tell you tons about Ampeg amps and which speakers sound great with them and etc.
Click to expand...

I hadn't looked at the GK line at all. I don't know anything about them and don't know anyone that uses them so I was askeeered of trying them out and being disappointed....there's that word again!

I just looked it up and it looks decent. I don't really need more than a thousand watts of power and the price is right. $700 for a 500/800 amp isn't bad.

Since you had that little tidbit of advice, what kind of cab would you buy for it?
 
#11
My recommendation is to not go with an 8x10. In this day and age, with Neodymium drivers and general speaker technology improvements, cabinets that large just aren't necessary any more. I'd hunt purely for 4x10's, looking at SWR, Genz Benz, Markbass and maybe Trace Elliot if you can find a cheap one. Hartke make a very powerful 4x10 but I've heard less than impressive things about their tone and longevity. They are a decent option though cause they're cheapish and have very high power ratings (though possibly not accurate). You could also look at an Ampeg 4x10, they do a good Neo cab that isn't too pricey and does produce the "Ampeg sound", but you just have bear in mind that "the Ampeg sound" is a partial synonym for "not very sonically versatile". Not always a bad thing, the flexibility of my Goliath sometimes has me wrangling with the controls for awhile when I realise a better tone setting.
 
#13
pickettj said:
I hadn't looked at the GK line at all. I don't know anything about them and don't know anyone that uses them so I was askeeered of trying them out and being disappointed....there's that word again!

I just looked it up and it looks decent. I don't really need more than a thousand watts of power and the price is right. $700 for a 500/800 amp isn't bad.

Since you had that little tidbit of advice, what kind of cab would you buy for it?
Click to expand...

GK MB800 and two 8 ohm GK Neo 410’s.
 
#14
It sounds like your bandmates have the volume under control. The rig you need will play the biggest joint that doesn't have PA support on bass.

In the extreme your backline has to cover a room which should have subs for PA. You'll be all bass on stage and drowning out drums. Putting what amounts to a full band worth of PA on stage just for bass is not flash. If you think you're going to come up against that situation often the band should do their own PA.

Better to sound good than loud. Even metal sounds good without mad volume.
 
#15
SVT 7 Pro is a hot amp, probably my favorite of the Ampeg solid state and hybrid amps, though the 4 Pro is growing on me. A lot of good suggestions for cabs, but there's no way in hell any 410 will take 1200w in the real world. That's the point at which the voice coils will blow, but fartout will be much earlier...if it does better than half that, I would be surprised. Might be a good cab, but power handling ratings are by and large meaningless.
 
#16
JimmyM said:
SVT 7 Pro is a hot amp, probably my favorite of the Ampeg solid state and hybrid amps, though the 4 Pro is growing on me. A lot of good suggestions for cabs, but there's no way in hell any 410 will take 1200w in the real world. That's the point at which the voice coils will blow, but fartout will be much earlier...if it does better than half that, I would be surprised. Might be a good cab, but power handling ratings are by and large meaningless.
Click to expand...

I've been looking around and getting more realistic here. I started with a small goal, a markbass setup for $1,800 that was less than 1000 watts and an amp to power it. As I looked around I got all googly eyed and wanted all of the biggest and best of everything.

Here's what I'm thinking now. An SVT-4 or 7 or even the GK MB800 that was suggested earlier for the head. I like the 4 because it can be expanded later on to handle more gear if needed (not likely, but still) but the 7 or the GK would work just fine.

The Cab, I'm looking in the 4-600 watt range at several 4x10 neo's. It's between three or four brands now and I need to do some comparisons. I like the GK 4x10 price point but the review I read was less than stellar. All suggestion on any of this would be greatly appreciated.
 
#17
Downunderwonder said:
It sounds like your bandmates have the volume under control. The rig you need will play the biggest joint that doesn't have PA support on bass.

In the extreme your backline has to cover a room which should have subs for PA. You'll be all bass on stage and drowning out drums. Putting what amounts to a full band worth of PA on stage just for bass is not flash. If you think you're going to come up against that situation often the band should do their own PA.

Better to sound good than loud. Even metal sounds good without mad volume.
Click to expand...

The problem is the joints don't have pa support at all. That's all us and our PA is under powered. We are looking at upgrading that but then you're talking $4-5,000 including the board, two monitors and a sub. Currently we are running two small mackie thump 15's and two harbinger 15's with a mackie 16 profx board. There just isn't enough there to plug me in to. I'll expand on this later but for now I have work to do!
 
#18
With two grand, you can get some great things on the used market, ever here on TB. Genz Benz and Bag End make some pretty sensitive (loud) and great sounding cabinets that can be found well within your budget secondhand. I like big tube amps and you could find several within your price range Ampegs, Fenders, Edens, etc... I'd also plug a Genz Benz Shuttle as a great choice if you like "modern" tone. It's my favorite hybrid or SS amp.
 
#19
Mackie profx 16 has 10 mic inputs. Lots of singers? How about a Sansamp into one of the Line inputs? You could add the gear to run a couple of diy BFM subs for a lot less than 2K. Once you take the sub thump off the Thumps they will scream out your mids. Get someone else to pony up for a monitor system, all set for loud and clear.
 
#20
christw said:
With two grand, you can get some great things on the used market, ever here on TB. Genz Benz and Bag End make some pretty sensitive (loud) and great sounding cabinets that can be found well within your budget secondhand. I like big tube amps and you could find several within your price range Ampegs, Fenders, Edens, etc... I'd also plug a Genz Benz Shuttle as a great choice if you like "modern" tone. It's my favorite hybrid or SS amp.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the fear I have is the "ampeg sound" or "modern tone". I don't know what these things sound like so I really need a trip to GC and SmAsh. I just want to be armed with information when I go so I don't get pressured in to buying something I don't want because corporate wants those units moved. I also hate high pressure sales. The "I'll have to talk to my manager" ********. I'm sure he's taking to him but I bet he isn't mentioning a word of the rig I asked him about! Just like cars. People who work on a commission all act the same.
 

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