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Rig advice

#41
Joe Louvar said:
In that case I recommend starting with a good 8 ohm 410 cab - that way if you ever need more volume you only need to add a second identical 410 cab, and one good 410 has kick so it may be all you need. I like 15s but two good 15s (at 4 ohms) may not be enough volume for you and with an 8 ohm 410 you can expand without having to slave amps w/215s.
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That's kinda the direction I was going and I like the idea of an 8 ohm setup for expansion later on if needed. 4x10 may be loud as hell in GC but how would it sound in the parking lot? Bet it's not as loud. It's the nature of sound, if it's not bouncing off of **** then it's just floating away. So 4x10's in a bedroom sized showroom are going to tell me how loud it will sound if we ever play in a bedroom. Ha!

I'm going to start digging and find the best 4x10 cabs that I can and pick two or three to go try. I think when I walk up and see/hear the cab that I will eventually buy, I'll know. And I'm afraid it's going to end up being a used Markbass 104hr! Ha! I'm definitely going to look at GK though. For now, I'm probably going back to bed since I work again tonight.
 
#45
slap5string said:
No problem - I see these 410sbx cabs for sale on Guitar Center online for $250 - $300 at least once every 2 weeks.
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I really like the rack setup though. Just seems better than carrying it around. My drummer made fun of me but understands why I want a rack instead of just a loose amp sitting there. They have some of those cabs on GC website and I will def give them a try if they have one there when I go.
 
#47
pickettj said:
No, but I certainly appreciate the sarcasm. We have two mics on the drums, four singers (drummer, two guitar and me), two guitar amps mic'ed, a specialty mic (it's an old pay phone) and an ambient mic for our, lets call him "special" lead guitarist who has to have a dedicated channel to run his ear buds on. Even if we opened a spot up, the setup we have isn't going to do well for us in the future. We are looking at expanding and I think they are buying a ProSonus board to add on to the Mackie. (Yes, I realize they are miles apart). We still need a ton up front on mains and monitors but for now I just want to be heard without my little 10's farting all over me.

Down under, you seem adamantly opposed to me upgrading. You partial to Acoustic gear? Ha!
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No sarcasm here bud. Not opposed to upgrading the rig at all. Merely pointing out an alternate path that would have the whole band sounding great for minimal investment.

You would be turning down your amp under this scheme.

I count 9 Mic channels in your lineup btw. The stereo 13/14 etc take a line input, your amp may even have line out.

For giggles take your combo and a Thump along to GC. Check out a powered sub under your 4x10. You need one with onboard filtering to go into your effects loop. Run the effect loop on full blend and return the highs from the sub.

Now try a sansamp into a Thump/Powered sub combo to get an idea what that can do as half your PA. I think you'll be surprised.

You're in an interesting position with the early success of the band. It sounds like you are in with some cool dudes with some skills in both making music and sound. Ask them what they think you need if the PA is upped to handling the whole band. The answer is "as little as possible".
 
#48
Downunderwonder said:
No sarcasm here bud. Not opposed to upgrading the rig at all. Merely pointing out an alternate path that would have the whole band sounding great for minimal investment.

You would be turning down your amp under this scheme.

I count 9 Mic channels in your lineup btw. The stereo 13/14 etc take a line input, your amp may even have line out.

For giggles take your combo and a Thump along to GC. Check out a powered sub under your 4x10. You need one with onboard filtering to go into your effects loop. Run the effect loop on full blend and return the highs from the sub.

Now try a sansamp into a Thump/Powered sub combo to get an idea what that can do as half your PA. I think you'll be surprised.

You're in an interesting position with the early success of the band. It sounds like you are in with some cool dudes with some skills in both making music and sound. Ask them what they think you need if the PA is upped to handling the whole band. The answer is "as little as possible".
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Damned you and your common sense approach! Can't you tell when a fellow bassist is GAS'ing??? Ha!

I'm still looking at the 4x10 option with a rack mounted amp but I've toned the wattage down to 500w for both. Brings the price way down and it brings some extra cash to the table to split the cost of a powered sub with my drummer. The mains, etc. will be handled by a sound guy that we will be hiring at the rate of *gulp* $300 per gig. Great sound guy and he has what we need. Just means our cut from gigs won't be nearly as much.

We are considering piecing together our own PA a show at a time but filling in the holes with this sound guys stuff until then.

Thanks for the input and, again, for knocking me down off of cloud 9. I was venturing towards a Fender Bassman 100T because they're pretty... :help:
 
#50
With PA and onto it bandmates you can gig 100w tube amps. Your guitarists would possibly need to downsize their amps.

For 300 smackers you better be getting some badarse sounds. You should be prepared for soundman telling you to turn way down. A table or box under your rig is the go. Get some bass aimed at your noggin. One reason a pair of 2x10 stacked vertically makes a good rig.
 
#51
pickettj said:
(...) The first is a schecter. She's my baby. She's loud and beautifully setup plus she's got an awesome body. The other is a fender mexi p-bass with bass lines QP pickups. The schecter is always on the wall at GC so I don't need to take my guitar there. And I'm
Pretty sure Sam ash has no shortage of fender mexi's.
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This is serious mistake in my opinion. Different basses, even the same make and model with the same wood and electronics, sound different. The setup has a lot to do with it, and the variance in wood. What is so bad about schleping you Schecter down to Guitar Center?

Different amps and especially cabinets all have different sounds that you can not significantly change/erase with EQ. You need to do your listening to pick what is right for you. All of these brands you mention make gear that works- for some players, they work great, for others, a different brand/sound is what is needed. Don't shirk on this- take you basses out to all kinds of music stores and try as many different bass rigs in the parameters you've listed as you can. I see that as: try as many 500 - 800 W at 4 Ohm heads as you can get your hands on, and as many 410 (and I would include 212) cabinets as you can, even if they are out of your price range, they will provide data and comparison info for you.
 
#52
Downunderwonder said:
With PA and onto it bandmates you can gig 100w tube amps. Your guitarists would possibly need to downsize their amps.

For 300 smackers you better be getting some badarse sounds. You should be prepared for soundman telling you to turn way down. A table or box under your rig is the go. Get some bass aimed at your noggin. One reason a pair of 2x10 stacked vertically makes a good rig.
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Yeah, but I can't part with $1,300 for the amp. And the $300 isn't just his services, it's his equipment rental as well. I'm in a band with a guy who's been through this several times and he has connections in several facets of music.

We have the sound guy, we have a luthier who will give us pro setups for a song (not literally...), and we even have a local dj as a friend and fan so free advertising and automatic airtime for originals.

They're all great people and I feel lucky to be in their company. And like I said, we are hoping to expand our pa as we go so the further along we get the more potential we have for the sound guy to drop his price.

And I don't turn way up...my first gig was a real eye opener. I was used to practicing with my rig set at 6/7 volume, 'bout 5 gain and the hot schecter cranked. Got to the venue with this setup and had to drop everything. Ended up at about Half of normal. The issue for me is as much air movement for outdoor gigs as it is sound quality. Even turned down the little b450 isn't stellar. Little guy struggles on Heavier stuff and I've even heard it distort a few times during sound check and the show. I'm perfectly fine with gettin a bigger rig and turning way down if the sound quality is there. Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong but since I'm NOT tube, bigger rig at lower volume/power seems Better than smaller rig at higher volume/power.
 
#53
HolmeBass said:
This is serious mistake in my opinion. Different basses, even the same make and model with the same wood and electronics, sound different. The setup has a lot to do with it, and the variance in wood. What is so bad about schleping you Schecter down to Guitar Center?

Different amps and especially cabinets all have different sounds that you can not significantly change/erase with EQ. You need to do your listening to pick what is right for you. All of these brands you mention make gear that works- for some players, they work great, for others, a different brand/sound is what is needed. Don't shirk on this- take you basses out to all kinds of music stores and try as many different bass rigs in the parameters you've listed as you can. I see that as: try as many 500 - 800 W at 4 Ohm heads as you can get your hands on, and as many 410 (and I would include 212) cabinets as you can, even if they are out of your price range, they will provide data and comparison info for you.
Click to expand...

Good point...just not a huge fan of carrying stuff in to a store like that. I feel like I would be hassled about thinking I stole it.
 
#54
Here's why I like to use an off the rack average bass to test amps at GC...if it sounds good with an off the rack bass, it will sound great with mine. If it doesn't sound good with an off the rack bass, it's not going to magically sound great with mine.
 
#55
You can get some great 4x10 cabs (SWR, Genz, Ampeg, Eden) for around $400 on the used market. Heads--I play a TC RH750 and despite the wattage controversy it sounds great and has tons of volume and I've never had to turn it up past about 10:00. You can pick those up for $650-$700 used also. So that's about $1100 for a pretty killer rig--maybe $1500 if you get 2 cabs.

I also like 2x10's a lot, especially standing on end. Much better for fitting into smaller venues. Just my experience.

Tom
 
#56
JimmyM said:
Here's why I like to use an off the rack average bass to test amps at GC...if it sounds good with an off the rack bass, it will sound great with mine. If it doesn't sound good with an off the rack bass, it's not going to magically sound great with mine.
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That's kinda what I was thinking but the previous, and only amp I've ever bought was based solely on price. It was 450 watts and $350.
 
#57
sawzalot said:
You can get some great 4x10 cabs (SWR, Genz, Ampeg, Eden) for around $400 on the used market. Heads--I play a TC RH750 and despite the wattage controversy it sounds great and has tons of volume and I've never had to turn it up past about 10:00. You can pick those up for $650-$700 used also. So that's about $1100 for a pretty killer rig--maybe $1500 if you get 2 cabs.

I also like 2x10's a lot, especially standing on end. Much better for fitting into smaller venues. Just my experience.

Tom
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I'm planning on keeping the combo amp I currently use for smaller venues. It works well for those situations. I'm looking at used Ampeg, GK, etc. 4x10's and used GK, Ampeg & Genz-Benz heads. We are also looking for a powered sub to add to our collection and I'll use some of my $2,000 allowance for that. The remainder will be saved for the Musicman bass that I fell in love with tonight. It's completely based on looks but I'll probably try one out during my field trip tuesday!
 
#58
Well, I GAS'ed and pooped all over this thread. Got to GC and plugged in a used Markbass 104HR and I was sold. Sounds awesome, moves air and will nicely fill the hole I was worried about. Now I need a head and, of course, it has to match. So I'll be buying a Markbass head of some type. I'm going to do a little research and hopefully get the best head for my cab. Just wish it would have been a 4 ohm cab!

Thanks for all of your advice. It didn't go unheeded. I tried a hartke 410 setup with a hartke kilo amp and a gk setup with a gk head. Sam Ash is a joke IMHO, everything there looks used and the manager loans new gear and tries to sell it as new...covered in dirt from a field it was in! Anyways. If there is any advice on a head (besides the one where I have to trade my cab) I'm all ears!
 

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