Right hand muting necessary whenever lifting off frets?

[farren]

I'm new to bass, having played fairly casually for less than a year. I'm having some issues taming string noise. I'm not having issues with unplayed strings ringing out, or with sympathetic resonance. Rather, my issue is with metallic noise coming from lifting off the frets themselves. I play exclusively with fingers and I'm starting to get the impression that what I need to be doing is muting with a right hand finger at rest before lifting off the string with my left. Note the sound isn't coming from leaving the fret open, but from the string vibrating against the fret while the note is still ringing and I lift off the string.

I'm used to redundant muting given I play guitar. With guitar, particularly when playing high gain, it's important to have a left finger tip (generally index) touching the string above the note it's fretting to avoid open string noise, and it helps to gently drape your fingers across the lower strings, and, when possible, the side of the right palm. You can't have too much muting IMO. But like I said, this is a completely different kind of string noise--fret noise, really.

Note I do NOT have buzzing while actually playing the note due to the action being too low or the nut being cut too low. The action is reasonably low: 1.6 mm on the G, 2 mm on the B string. However, as long as I play as close to the fret as possible and not in the middle between two frets, I don't get any buzz. I should also add that the frets are properly crowned. I once played a guitar with leveled frets that hadn't been crowned, and it had this very problem with extraordinarily noisy frets.

I feel like the problem got worse when I went from Kalium semi-rounds to D'Addario rounds. I know a lot of people like a percussive attack, and some desire the fret noise when actually playing a note for the aggressive Steve Harris sound, but the buzz when lifting off is most certainly not cool and I doubt anyone appreciates it.

Is this a common issue for all players? Is the remedy simply to mute with my right hand mere milliseconds before lifting off with my left? That certainly works--it's just not a problem I had experienced in any way as a guitarist (save with uncrowned frets) and I didn't realize it was a consideration bassists had to make, if it indeed is.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

My BTB with rounds does it, while my SRX with flats does not. If you want it gone, switch to flats, or just be more abrupt at your pull-off.

 

[farren]

Hah, and the bass in question is an SR... I'd love to switch to flats. Unfortunately, I've heard they lose what brightness they have rapidly and I'm afraid I can't afford to change strings often enough to keep up... :/

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Cobalt Flats

 

[farren]

Ordered a set of 45-130. Had to try flats at some point anyway. :>

 

[Spin Doctor]

I'm new to bass, having played fairly casually for less than a year. I'm having some issues taming string noise. I'm not having issues with unplayed strings ringing out, or with sympathetic resonance. Rather, my issue is with metallic noise coming from lifting off the frets themselves. I play exclusively with fingers and I'm starting to get the impression that what I need to be doing is muting with a right hand finger at rest before lifting off the string with my left. Note the sound isn't coming from leaving the fret open, but from the string vibrating against the fret while the note is still ringing and I lift off the string.

I'm used to redundant muting given I play guitar. With guitar, particularly when playing high gain, it's important to have a left finger tip (generally index) touching the string above the note it's fretting to avoid open string noise, and it helps to gently drape your fingers across the lower strings, and, when possible, the side of the right palm. You can't have too much muting IMO. But like I said, this is a completely different kind of string noise--fret noise, really.

Note I do NOT have buzzing while actually playing the note due to the action being too low or the nut being cut too low. The action is reasonably low: 1.6 mm on the G, 2 mm on the B string. However, as long as I play as close to the fret as possible and not in the middle between two frets, I don't get any buzz. I should also add that the frets are properly crowned. I once played a guitar with leveled frets that hadn't been crowned, and it had this very problem with extraordinarily noisy frets.

I feel like the problem got worse when I went from Kalium semi-rounds to D'Addario rounds. I know a lot of people like a percussive attack, and some desire the fret noise when actually playing a note for the aggressive Steve Harris sound, but the buzz when lifting off is most certainly not cool and I doubt anyone appreciates it.

Is this a common issue for all players? Is the remedy simply to mute with my right hand mere milliseconds before lifting off with my left? That certainly works--it's just not a problem I had experienced in any way as a guitarist (save with uncrowned frets) and I didn't realize it was a consideration bassists had to make, if it indeed is.

Being aware of a problem is the first step in curing it. While your choice of strings is clearly personal, I wouldn't buy into the idea of changing strings to cover up a technique issue, which is what this is.

Bottom line is you should always be aware of and controlling your muting. You have to maintain awareness of it, until it becomes automatic. Once you do that, you will never have to think about it again.

 

[farren]

I've wanted to try flats for a while for tonal and feel purposes. This is only an added benefit, so I disagree that that is what this is. I was hoping someone would comment as to my proposed solution, like "Is the remedy simply to mute with my right hand mere milliseconds before lifting off with my left?"

 

[SLO Surfer]

I think the remedy is to mute with your right hand milliseconds before lifting off with your left, or lifting off with your left hand finger(s) much faster?

 

[Spin Doctor]

I've wanted to try flats for a while for tonal and feel purposes. This is only an added benefit, so I disagree that that is what this is. I was hoping someone would comment as to my proposed solution, like "Is the remedy simply to mute with my right hand mere milliseconds before lifting off with my left?"

Whatever you need to do to increase your awareness of what's happening is the remedy. If you think you can actually quantify movements down to the "millisecond" then sure, that's one answer. Of course, I realize you are just describing what you think you need to do.

Nevertheless, your solution to be aware of a milliseconds worth of motion, is a technique issue, regardless what you wish to call it. It simply is what it is...

 

[farren]

I think the remedy is to mute with your right hand milliseconds before lifting off with your left, or lifting off with your left hand finger(s) much faster?

Thanks. That second idea is amusing to me because I've trained as a guitarist to lift off slowly to prevent open string noise under high gain, but I can see how that would be beneficial for bass where the gain is typically lower. Also, with bigger bass strings, you fingertip can't slightly wrap around the string, causing a slight pull when lifting off as can happen on unwound guitar strings.

Whatever you need to do to increase your awareness of what's happening is the remedy. If you think you can actually quantify movements down to the "millisecond" then sure, that's one answer.

A couple milliseconds is an understatement. I didn't mean it literally. It's a matter of feel, not of calculation at those quantum (another understatement) intervals. It's like timing a very quick before-the-beat grace note.

Nevertheless, your solution to be aware of a milliseconds worth of motion, is a technique issue, regardless what you wish to call it. It simply is what it is...

I cannot fathom why you seem to think I believe otherwise.

 

[farren]

Cool. So what is it? Just for my own edification? I love learning new things.

I came here seeking technique-based solutions to a technique problem. The observation that it was less of an issue on smoother strings I'd previously used was secondary. Naturally flats would be quieter, something I called 'only an added benefit'--as in, not the solution.

The solution I suggested in the topic was technique-based. You're telling the guy who says he wants to improve his technique that he needs to improve his technique while mocking his reference to 'milliseconds' when suggesting his own idea of how to fix his own problem. How is that helpful?

For your own edification, you are either trying to be difficult because you enjoy it, or you need to work on your reading comprehension technique. If you'd like to admit you have a technique problem in that area, I won't repeatedly remind you you have a problem as though you didn't already know--being aware of a problem is the first step in curing it.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I came here seeking technique-based solutions to a technique problem. The observation that it was less of an issue on smoother strings I'd previously used was secondary. Naturally flats would be quieter, something I called 'only an added benefit'--as in, not the solution.

The solution I suggested in the topic was technique-based. You're telling the guy who says he wants to improve his technique that he needs to improve his technique while mocking his reference to 'milliseconds' when suggesting his own idea of how to fix his own problem. How is that helpful?

For your own edification, you are either trying to be difficult because you enjoy it, or you need to work on your reading comprehension technique. If you'd like to admit you have a technique problem in that area, I won't repeatedly remind you you have a problem as though you didn't already know--being aware of a problem is the first step in curing it.

Actually what I should have said before was that to point to a single technical solution and expect that to be the answer is probably not going to get you that far. As far as using "awareness", that simply means trying different things almost subconsciously until you hit a solution. But that is simply what I would do in that situation. Of course you can do what you want.

Sorry if that all came off as too highbrow or whatever. But I did actually misinterpret what you were aiming for. It sounded to me like you were looking to flats for the answer. My answer would be to just keep using the rounds until you figure it out.

 

[farren]

Actually what I should have said before was that to point to a single technical solution and expect that to be the answer is probably not going to get you that far. As far as using "awareness", that simply means trying different things almost subconsciously until you hit a solution. But that is simply what I would do in that situation. Of course you can do what you want.

Sorry if that all came off as too highbrow or whatever. But I did actually misread what you were aiming for.

Cool, I really appreciate that. I approach technique like some pro athletes, questioning every aspect of it. As a kid, I learned to play guitar intuitively (sometimes slowly), but at my age I like to be more analytical and save a little time. I think pre-emptive right hand muting is probably the solution here.

I understand most players learn without ever having to even think about minutiae like this, but I'm probably expecting myself (justly or otherwise) to advance at a faster-than-normal rate for having a lot of stringed instrument experience--when I sound awful, I'm hyper-aware of it.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Also, be aware of the angle you lift your left hand fingers off of the string. Straight off the finger board is probably ideal but not natural feeling, maybe you're lifting up at more of an angle rather than straight off the finger board.

Just throwing out more ideas for you. Not sure if I'm correct in this case.

 

[HandsFree]

But is that buzz audible through the amp? If it's just the string under your fretting hand I would assume not, in which case I would not spend too much time with that particular problem.
If you practise without amp you'll hear many noises. It's the ones that you'll also hear amplified that you have to correct.

 

[Mushroo]

One of my teachers suggested that every note should tell a short story, with a beginning, middle, and end. This is achieved through a combination of right and left hand techniques. An example that will make sense to a guitarist, if you play with the "palm mute" technique, then the note is going to have a very different "beginning, middle, and end" than if you let the strings vibrate freely without the palm mute. Study the right and left hands of different master players, to learn how they have approached this challenge.

If you lift your fretting finger during the beginning or middle of the note, while the sound is still developing, then it will interrupt the story and sound bad. Try ending (muting) the note first, then lift your finger.

I don't think it is a "rounds vs flats" issue at all. When I flub a note, it sounds just as bad on my flatwound basses as on my roundwound basses.

A couple of specific technique exercises you can try:

1. Try fretting with your finger as close to the fret as possible, even touching the fret is okay. Don't put your finger halfway in between the frets.

2. Use the minimum force necessary to fret the string and get a clean sound. Avoid the "kung fu death grip."

 

[Badwater]

Yes using the right or picking hand can help reduce the noise. I also cut the high on my 3 band EQ quite a bit unless I need to slap. And if the beat is fast, I'll attack softer and move my pick hand toward the bridge, and keep the fretting hand relaxed.