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Right Hand Technique: Crossover followthrough?

S

SteveChatterton

Jun 29, 2010
16
0
Ontario
#1
I'm a relatively new bass convert, so I'm highly suspicious of my self-taught technique and I don't know what half these things should be called, but I have this habit and I just wanted your input on whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.

When I go from high to low across the strings, I tend to drag a finger from my right hand to cover both strings. For instance, when I use my ring finger to pluck the D string I'll just pull it through in a relatively even motion to pluck the next note on the A string.

It's an overwhelming urge, and I have a hard time doing anything else even when I set my mind to trying something else.

So, am I doing the right thing, or should I stick to strict alternating patterns (sort of the approach guitarists use for alternate picking)?
 
#3
Bunny Brunel uses this technique and its never held him back (if anything it made him have a really sweet sweeping-lick that he uses often in the "show-off" solo battles) so Ive been doing it too.. but not all the time, I dont know exactly how but sometimes I do it and sometimes I alternate fingers..

So yea, dont be too ashamed, and if it works for you it should be fine, Bunny is one of the awesomest bassists out there. I say keep doing it until you find a song/style that proves its an issue, thats how I base my technique on.
 
#4
Use it, but don't become reliant on it.

Your muscle memory will become conditioned to something like this. Eventually, it could become a bad habit. On the other hand, using an unconventional technique can give birth to creativity and some licks that you wouldn't normal pull off with strict alternating patterns.
 
#5
So I guess the consensus is that I should build a solid technique with the alternating & then use this down-sweep doodad for effect from time to time.

Since it does come naturally, I'll focus on the more technical approach for now (it'll probably unlock a bunch of doors for me) & use it whenever I need it to help me out of/during a jam.
 
#6
I do the finger drag thing frequently when playing certain note combinations like you described, and I say do what feels comfortable to you and gets you the effect, tone, and speed you want. I find myself alternating mostly but there's times when it's convenient to drag down the string like that, and I don't see anything wrong with that. no need to confine yourself to hard and fast rules, it's open to interpretation as long as you stay within the ballpark of "proper technique" and not get into overtly bad habits. proper textbook technique is there as a guideline to strive for when learning the instrument, but in reality things can be played a number of different ways, and variations are acceptable
 
#8
Erick Lam said:
That's the problem with things that come naturally. People don't put any effort on it and develop bad habits.
Click to expand...

Er, no - if it comes naturally, chances are it's a _good_ habit for you, not a bad one.

The technique you're talking about is called "raking" or "hammerstroking" and it's widely used, and by many virtuosos. Even Billy Sheehan uses it and he's exclusively 3-fingers on the right hand (it's really something to watch too).

I've always used it and it has never been a hindrance for me.

So don't feel bad about it if raking is what you end up settling on as your most natural technique...

LS
 
#9
I've had people actually recommended you do that.

Let's say you pluck the A string with your index finger. If the next note is on the D, you pluck it with your middle finger. However, if it's on the E string, you pluck with the same finger you plucked the A string with (in this case, the index).

That's just what I've heard. Seems to work well.
 
#10
unclejane said:
Er, no - if it comes naturally, chances are it's a _good_ habit for you, not a bad one.
Click to expand...

You missed my point. I'm all for raking, but it comes more easily at first so people put less effort into refining it. Alternating requires practice and one is forced to slow down because it doesn't come naturally. Years later, they can alternate well but their raking isn't as good so it must be a bad technique.

It's a bit like left vs right hand. People put more effort into the the fretting hand because it's a lot more difficult at first, only to find out later that it's their plucking hand that is dragging them down. The old saying "tone is in the finger"... it's mostly in the plucking fingers.

I encourage people to take a piece of music and figure out what is best for every single note, be it raked, alternated or none (tied notes), like arco players do.
 
#11
Erick Lam said:
You missed my point. I'm all for raking, but it comes more easily at first so people put less effort into refining it. Alternating requires practice and one is forced to slow down because it doesn't come naturally. Years later, they can alternate well but their raking isn't as good so it must be a bad technique.
Click to expand...

Er, no. The suggestion you were making was that raking was somehow inferior because it "came naturally" as oppose to alternating which is superior for some reason (perhaps strangely because it _doesn't_ come naturally). Or, the bizarre, old-timey idea that because it's harder to do, that means it's somehow "better".

What I'm saying is that that's a very poor metric for determining if a technique is the right one for you. Sure, you want to try both to see which one comes out on top, or if you end up using both, etc. But if raking ends up being the "natural" technique for you chances are it's good technique (for you) _not_ bad. In fact, you're then much more likely to develop it than you would the technique that _doesn't_ come naturally.

Or more succinctly:
- try them all and adopt the one that works for you
- don't listen to "experts" who rigidly judge one as better and the other as worse period.

LS
 
#12
unclejane said:
Er, no. The suggestion you were making was that raking was somehow inferior because it "came naturally" as oppose to alternating which is superior for some reason (perhaps strangely because it _doesn't_ come naturally). Or, the bizarre, old-timey idea that because it's harder to do, that means it's somehow "better".
Click to expand...

I never said anything like that. All I said is "do not neglect raking because it comes naturally". When something is easy, people tend to neglect it and THAT can be a problem later, when "easy" is not good enough.

Here's the full quote from the OP's follow up:

So I guess the consensus is that I should build a solid technique with the alternating & then use this down-sweep doodad for effect from time to time.

Since it does come naturally, I'll focus on the more technical approach for now (it'll probably unlock a bunch of doors for me) & use it whenever I need it to help me out of/during a jam.
Click to expand...

Raking may come more easily, but you still have to work to make it refined and perfected. I say work on both at the same time or you'll end up with solid alternation and sloppy raking... and maybe even come to TB and say raking sucks.
 
#14
Erick Lam said:
When something is easy, people tend to neglect it and THAT can be a problem later, when "easy" is not good enough.
Click to expand...

^^ - or they get lazy and depend on it.

As an avid raker for eons (got into Sheehan as a wee pup), you need both in your bag. They're techniques, and more techniques provide you with more options on the fly - but only if they're at the same comfort level. This way, you can make musical choices rather than choices defined by technique.
 
#15
One of the first online bass lessons I went through stressed walking up strings and dragging down. I guess it's situational though, it definitely helps in the fast solo section of Dazed and Confused by Led Zeppelin, but if you're skipping strings it would be tough.
 
#16
Controlled raking is a good thing and of course it's very useful but I personally would spend more time on Alternation, raking is relatively easy to pick-up but good Alternation does require study and dilligence and comes into it's own for high BPM's and string skipping/crossing, both are important techniques but IMO I consider learning to Alternate moreso and far more useful.
 
#17
Like everyone else says it's vital that you not be shackled to it. But raking is really important to some styles, so worth doing. I'd suggest practicing both ways til the point you can do them with equal proficiency.

One thing I can say as a guy who learned with raking..it's ridiculously hard to stop after you've been doing it that way for years and want to try the other way. :)
 
#18
rpsands said:
Like everyone else says it's vital that you not be shackled to it. But raking is really important to some styles, so worth doing. I'd suggest practicing both ways til the point you can do them with equal proficiency.

One thing I can say as a guy who learned with raking..it's ridiculously hard to stop after you've been doing it that way for years and want to try the other way. :)
Click to expand...

... which is why you start with strict alternation.... the OP is relatively new to bass.
Raking is important as a distinct technique, like slapping, double thumb etc. etc. to be used for specific purposes.

But basics come first.
 

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